Christian rights cases go before Strasbourg court - a case of double standards?

[amateur51]

Re msg 118, it does seem as if some of these cases originally arose because colleagues or employers "objected vehemently to a religious belief" held by the worker in question ...

Presumably 'colleagues or employers' would only become aware of these religious beliefs if they were expressed and made otherwise manifest in the workplace where they might be against the law in question as he was being paid to provide a service.

[Barbirollians]

In Ms Ladele's case they objected against her being allowed to discriminate - that is very different AuntyKezia.

[AuntyKezia]

It just makes me wonder how long before all hospital doctors are required to affirm their willingness to perform abortions if so required by their work schedule - there it could well be a case of professional rather than religious scruples causing them to discriminate against particular patients.

[Resurrection Man]

I am surprised that some people find it so difficult to understand that religious belief does not entitle you to discriminate against others in the course of your employment no more than it would entitle a person who objected vehemently to a religious belief to discriminate against the holders of it . If you find that you are in a job where your conscience makes you object to some of the lawful requirements then find another career .

But what happens if you have been in a career all your life and then the law changes? If you are in, say, your fifties, its a bit late in life to retrain.

[Resurrection Man]

Presumably 'colleagues or employers' would only become aware of these religious beliefs if they were expressed and made otherwise manifest in the workplace where they might be against the law in question as he was being paid to provide a service.

But we don't know for sure, do we. It seems to me that too many people take offence at the slightest provocation and for no good reason. Third Party Apologists.

[Flosshilde]

But what happens if you have been in a career all your life and then the law changes? If you are in, say, your fifties, its a bit late in life to retrain.

I would have thought that Relate - or any similar organisation providing services to the public - would have had policies making it clear that its services should be provided without discrimination a long time before 2010. That Act was on the whole catching up with what was already in place, & ensuring that private companies couldn't discriminate.

[amateur51]

But what happens if you have been in a career all your life and then the law changes? If you are in, say, your fifties, its a bit late in life to retrain.

Life is full of surprises, RM

Wiould you expect an organisation serving the public to retain the services of a 50 year old woman who has stated that she won't work with EU migrants because it goes against her membership of UKIP?

[amateur51]

But we don't know for sure, do we. It seems to me that too many people take offence at the slightest provocation and for no good reason. Third Party Apologists.

Are you referring to fundamentalist Christians like Mr McFarlane, RM?

[Resurrection Man]

I would have thought that Relate - or any similar organisation providing services to the public - would have had policies making it clear that its services should be provided without discrimination a long time before 2010. That Act was on the whole catching up with what was already in place, & ensuring that private companies couldn't discriminate.

Who is to say....perhaps Relate recognised that some of its staff had strongly held religious beliefs and that some accommodation was made for them. As was the case, as I recall, for the registrar but then the council changed their policy....wonder if it coincided in a change of political party in charge at the council?

[Resurrection Man]

Life is full of surprises, RM

Wiould you expect an organisation serving the public to retain the services of a 50 year old woman who has stated that she won't work with EU migrants because it goes against her membership of UKIP?

ams, surely I don't have to explain to you the difference between a deeply held religious belief and membership of a political party ?

[scottycelt]

But what happens if you have been in a career all your life and then the law changes? If you are in, say, your fifties, its a bit late in life to retrain.

Which, of course, is exactly the situation with middle-aged registrars, for example.

In a sense Amateur51 is absolutely correct when he says 'the boot is now on the other foot'.

In past times Christian dogma and 'morality' ruled. Now it is Secular dogma and 'equality'.

It's a safe bet that people will eventually get fed-up and rebel against that too, and we could even end up with another Victorian-type 'morality' a few decades hence (long after most of us here have thankfully passed away, of course!).

A look back at history over the centuries tends to reflect these gradual but ultimately striking pendulum swings in personal attitudes and social norms.

[Barbirollians]

Why are conscientious objections different just because they are based on religious belief rather than other grounds ?

So would that justify allowing a Christian pacifist in wartime to object but throw a an atheist who objected to killing others in prison ?

[Ferretfancy]

Which, of course, is exactly the situation with middle-aged registrars, for example.

In a sense Amateur51 is absolutely correct when he says 'the boot is now on the other foot'.

In past times Christian dogma and 'morality' ruled. Now it is Secular dogma and 'equality'.

It's a safe bet that people will eventually get fed-up and rebel against that too, and we could even end up with another Victorian-type 'morality' a few decades hence (long after most of us here have thankfully passed away, of course!).

A look back at history over the centuries tends to reflect these gradual but ultimately striking pendulum swings in personal attitudes and social norms.

scotty

A middle aged registrar sits in an office with a list of set questions for applicants, and fills in the appropriate forms. In what way does that require retraining due to the gender of the applicants? Registrars are required by law to do this job. Suppose a man in a civil partnership dies, would it be OK for the registrar to refuse to register the death ? I think not. The far from middle aged lady who conducted our civil partnership could not have been more helpful, and this was one of the earliest she had conducted.

[scottycelt]

Why are conscientious objections different just because they are based on religious belief rather than other grounds ?

So would that justify allowing a Christian pacifist in wartime to object but throw a an atheist who objected to killing others in prison ?

Since when were conscientious objectors separated on the grounds of faith or lack of it?

Whether one is religious or not is irrelevant when it comes to conscience or belief.

Would you force the owner of a vegetarian restaurant to provide meat-dishes for customers as not doing so would be deemed offensive and unlawfully discriminating against meat-eaters?

[scottycelt]

scotty

A middle aged registrar sits in an office with a list of set questions for applicants, and fills in the appropriate forms. In what way does that require retraining due to the gender of the applicants? Registrars are required by law to do this job. Suppose a man in a civil partnership dies, would it be OK for the registrar to refuse to register the death ? I think not. The far from middle aged lady who conducted our civil partnership could not have been more helpful, and this was one of the earliest she had conducted.

Well, of course, a registrar now knows exactly what the job entails so there is no debate about that.

However, it cannot be denied that not so long ago civil partnerships did not exist and gender was the most important aspect of marriage.

A death is a death and happens to everyone and gender is totally irrelevant in such work.

The Government proposals regarding marriage are of a wholly different order.

I certainly have a lot of sympathy with those who don't like it and will be stuck with it daily, simply because they are unable to find alternative, more suitable employment.

Don't you, ferret ... ?