The other Armstrong

[Dave2002]

I am sad to see the news about Lance Armstrong. OK, I'm not in favour of cheating, but despite that his performance over many years was surely spectacular. Others have admitted to cheating in this way - e.g Andre Agassi. I even found myself warming to Dwain Chambers a bit during the Olympics.

It's possibly a big problem area, but pretending that some athletes didn't actually achieve something significant whether or not they cheated with drugs does seem to me going too far. Ttere are many who would not achieve even with shed loads of drugs.

[Lateralthinking1]

I am sad to see the news about Lance Armstrong. OK, I'm not in favour of cheating, but despite that his performance over many years was surely spectacular. Others have admitted to cheating in this way - e.g Andre Agassi. I even found myself warming to Dwain Chambers a bit during the Olympics.

It's possibly a big problem area, but pretending that some athletes didn't actually achieve something significant whether or not they cheated with drugs does seem to me going too far. Ttere are many who would not achieve even with shed loads of drugs.

I support the action. What he did was unfair to other competitors and a bad example to the young. It concerns me that competitive sport should be presented as wholesome, as ideally it should be, when at the same time we are being told some are cutting off a toe to help blood flow. For every Jessica Ennis, there is a nut case. Condemnation of the latter is not wholly appropriate because people are victims of societal pressure. But any madness does need to be rooted out when it arises for it is not a good thing. And while it is very sad to see a fallen hero, Lance Armstrong was both dangerous and a fool to himself.

[Don Petter]

I too feel somewhat ambivalent, as Dave does.

I have no better solution than the restrictions and systems which are generally in place, though I know some have suggested that no restrictions and a general free-for-all in sporting drug use would be fairer and more practical.

One can't help feeling that there is a whole gradual spectrum of chemicals which we can all consume, from general foodstuffs through medicinal substances to the so-called naughty ones, and any division imposed must, to some extent, be an artificial one.

[vinteuil]

. And while it is very sad to see a fallen hero, Lance Armstrong was both dangerous and a fool to himself.

... you are very confident in saying this.

There has still been no evidence at all of his wickedness: he passed all the drugs tests., nothing was ever proved against him. What has happened is that he has now decided not to continue to defend himself against accusations from ex-colleagues.

Do you not believe in the principle of "innocent until proven guilty" ??

[Dave2002]

It seems it's even possible to win an Olympic Gold, yet have been previously banned.

[Lateralthinking1]

... you are very confident in saying this.

There has still been no evidence at all of his wickedness: he passed all the drugs tests., nothing was ever proved against him. What has happened is that he has now decided not to continue to defend himself against accusations from ex-colleagues.

Do you not believe in the principle of "innocent until proven guilty" ??

I have noted the comments of Michael Rieu and the action of USADA. You might well have a good point but the public pays for these sports people. That he has chosen not to fight the allegations in law might suit him as an individual but we can be forgiven for jumping to conclusions, wrong or right. It would be foolish in this climate to buy into his brilliance as previously presented. His stance doesn't appear to serve his reputation, the sport or younger people. Oddly, I am reminded of Neville Chamberlain.

[vinteuil]

... we can be forgiven for jumping to conclusions, wrong or right. .

hmmm.

We also have the option of not jumping to conclusions.

[Dave2002]

Why are we able to be forgiven? Seemingly people against whom allegations are made are not allowed this privilege.

[Lateralthinking1]

hmmm.

We also have the option of not jumping to conclusions.

Why are we able to be forgiven? Seemingly people against whom allegations are made are not allowed this privilege.

But if ten respected local gentle folk said they spotted someone carrying Mein Kampf, I doubt that I could dismiss it out of hand. I might even have the thought that it was probably more true than it was untrue. I am concerned that the aryan project may be alive and well, albeit peddling in a slightly different way. If 15 year old Lucy was injecting rhino hormone while eating a bowl of coco pops, I'd see it as more alarming than a heavy diet of marmite sandwiches, notwithstanding all the B1, B2 and B12 vitamins.

[Richard Tarleton]

What he did was unfair to other competitors and a bad example to the young

This goes to the heart of it, Lat. What did he do? Even after reading two lengthy articles in today's Sunday Times, by a journalist who has been on his case for 10 years, I'm still far from clear what he is actually supposed to have done. Was it being injected with drugs (which did not show up in drugs tests), or so-called "blood-doping" - being injected with one's own blood to enhance performance?

Is anyone able to spell it out?

[Lateralthinking1]

This goes to the heart of it, Lat. What did he do? Even after reading two lengthy articles in today's Sunday Times, by a journalist who has been on his case for 10 years, I'm still far from clear what he is actually supposed to have done. Was it being injected with drugs (which did not show up in drugs tests), or so-called "blood-doping" - being injected with one's own blood to enhance performance?

Is anyone able to spell it out?

Before this one goes any further, I should admit here that I did jump to conclusions. Normally I am a methodical 'journalist'.

I have now read the articles thoroughly. Having done so, I retract the comments I made specifically about Lance Armstrong in my first post. Nevertheless I do so with gritted teeth. Sport has lost its way if any competitor is drawn into such areas of moral equivalence and more so if we humble spectators have to check where we are treading. I resent it bitterly. Insider trading took place because of cocaine. So-called performance enhancers could make cycling as much of a basket case as the economy.