Does anyone still use or like vinyl?

[oliver sudden]

My gripe with these new vinyl recordings is why couldn’t these big multi-national companies have been producing such high quality products back in the 1970’s and 80’s when they were originally released? I’ve kept some of my vinyl LPs from that period and, frankly, they are dreadful! The records are thin and extremely bendy and it’s hardly surprising they sounded so poor in comparison to the discs that are being produced today which, adjusted for inflation, are roughly the same price that we were paying back in the days when I was a teenager.

One of the friends who gave me various tips when I was starting to get interested in this LP business told me to watch out for ‘oil crisis vinyl’.

[smittims]

I must have been lucky. I 'built a library' of thousands of LPs in the 1970s and had very few faulty ones. Many of them I still play today.

[Roger Webb]

............I used to make a point of looking out for records that were pressed in Germany or Holland as the British pressings were so terrible. I pretty much gave up buying EMI issues because of the poor quality (although the DMM discs that appeared latterly were better).

Exactly my strategy hmv. When EMI started to repress their catalogue in the early 80s (they adopted the top hemisphere black, bottom red with a large dog a trumpet in stead of 'postage stamp' allover red label) I replaced many of my most treasured recordings - these I still play and they are still fine (anti-static treated of course!). When they repressed after Teldec introduced DMM in '83, those were finer still, if pressed at Hamburg. As for DG, it's 'Pressed in Germany' all the way! For Decca and Philips it was the 'Pressed in Holland' ones to go for.

About this time though, a lot of the smaller, specialist labels were looking around for a good pressing plant in the UK, and they often used Nimbus at Wyastone Leys, Monmouth...for example when Richard Itter had his entire catalogue (well most of it) remastered, he got Nimbus to do it (before that he used Decca facilities - mainly New Malden) and the pressings of Lyrita with the little 'Nimbus, England' (Wyastone Leys has an NP postcode, so is properly in Wales!*) lozenge in the dead wax are the ones to go for....out of my 97 Lyrita LPs 72 are now Nimbus pressings!

* After a trip down the A40 I note that Wyastone Leys is in England........just!

[richardfinegold]

I thought CDs were a Godsend. Quiet backgrounds and surfaces. The disc was always playable upon opening the package, unlike many newly purchased LPs that were warped and misshaped when brand new. CDs had enhanced dynamic range and played 2-4 times longer. They are more durable and easier to clean.
I thought people were/are crazy when they complained that digital sound was cold and sterile. There were some poor digital transfers early on, as engineers adjusted to the new technology. I might note parenthetically that some of these very expensive vinyl reissues of classic rock have complaints from fans of poor remastering, and vinyl is a 75 year old technology.
Over half a century in to the digital age most recordings from our salad days have been remastered more than once, and only rarely for the worse.
Most vinyl that re releases older recordings use digital files because of the damage to older analog tape. The Karajan Mahler 6 appears to be an exception to this. I would rather keep digital files in the digital domain, and not embed them in a slab of petroleum.
Many classical LPs had very low sales figures compared with pop. As a result they weren’t digitalized. I therefore want to have an analog system to play those few old favorites. In addition due to the passing away of some older relatives recently, I’ve inherited some LPs (a fair amount of Opera that I normally don’t invest resources in-I just prefer to experience it in performance and not in my listening room) and it’s nice to be able to play them and reflect about the departed who bequeathed them.
My situation may be a bit unique in that my LP collection was destroyed in the mid eighties. If I still had them I’m not sure how many I would have retained; probably the low sales ones that were never digitalized. However people who retained their collections aren’t being illogical by continuing to play them and not necessarily repurchase a digital version of the same records.

[smittims]

More than once Mark Obert Thorn has commented ,when making a remastering of a 1950s LP recording for Naxos,that the 70-year-old LP sounds better than the EMI tape used for the EMI CD issue. And digital remastering does evolve, like everything else in the universe! I've been pleasantly surprised by the improvement in sound of later EMI CD remasterings of Becham and Schnabel recordings compared with their previous 1980s or '90s versions.

[Roger Webb]

More than once Mark Obert Thorn has commented ,when making a remastering of a 1950s LP recording for Naxos,that the 70-year-old LP sounds better than the EMI tape used for the EMI CD issue. And digital remastering does evolve......

Yes, those early days of CD had some very unpleasant sounding recordings...much better represented by the original Lp. And not just EMI...who were a bit late into the game. The first batch from Polygram (those numbered 400 010-2 or similar from DG, Philips and Decca were often too bright. It was said that in the Lp days a tape had a bit of treble lift on the master that was sent to the cutting suite (taking into account the RIAA curve), as engineers, if they mastered it 'flat', when they recieved a pressing and played it back, comparing it to the master tape in the studio, it could sound a little dull. Of course if those same tapes were used to master CDs without EQing them, they would sound too bright. Of course they got better at it, and I have many of my 'test recordings' that sound excellent on CD judged against the Lp. I would also add that the remastering of uploads to streaming companies have got better to the point that, in some cases (I use Qobuz) they are the equal of both Lp and CD.....I compared the three media of the famous Arnold Dances on Lyrita yesterday....all are demonstration quality, but I think the 24bit/192k Qobuz version is the best I've heard.

[HighlandDougie]

https://dgt.link/karajan-mahler6

Karajan Mahler 6 has been remastered by Emile Berliner Studios for vinyl. Hopefully the above link works; if not go to YT and type Mahler 6 Karajan Emile Berliner. I found it fascinating; 4 tape machines, one separate for the bells; and the mention that in concert the bells were added electronically (There are two concert versions available on 78 experience, and the total timing varies it’s by 7 minutes, so obviously Karajan had to cue whoever worked the tape machine).
The YT extracts sound full blooded, enough to make me consider shelling out the more than 50 pounds asking price (some vendors are asking for 90). Then, of course, comes the realization that what I am hearing on YT is some form of digitalization of this analog recording. So eventually I expect some digital release to occur.
The Karajan Mahler 5 has been released as a Blu Ray but I was always disappointed that the Sixth never was. It’s disappointing to see that all of this care in remastering is going into an analog only version; it’s as if a car company poured as much enhanced technology as possible into a Model T

I wish that I had never clicked on the link but, as Presto had the Mahler 6 and, more attractively to me, the Abbado/Boston SO Debussy/Ravel (very special for all sorts of non-musical reasons) in stock. Currently heading my way so I'll report back in due course.

[HighlandDougie]

I wish that I had never clicked on the link but, as Presto had the Mahler 6 and, more attractively to me, the Abbado/Boston SO Debussy/Ravel (very special for all sorts of non-musical reasons) in stock. Currently heading my way so I'll report back in due course.

I can only listen to Mahler 6 occasionally so it will have to wait but the Abbado/Boston SO Debussy 'Nocturnes' sound rather better on this issue than on the old 1970's LP but that "sounding rather better" does tend to point up the shortcomings of the original recording - it all gets a bit congested/cloudy at climaxes. Completely silent pressing on heavy vinyl (which it should be at the price).

[Maclintick]

I can only listen to Mahler 6 occasionally so it will have to wait but the Abbado/Boston SO Debussy 'Nocturnes' sound rather better on this issue than on the old 1970's LP but that "sounding rather better" does tend to point up the shortcomings of the original recording - it all gets a bit congested/cloudy at climaxes. Completely silent pressing on heavy vinyl (which it should be at the price).

This is intriguing. I've just given the original 1970 LP a spin. It has many virtues, not the least of which is the incredible finesse of the BSO in French repertoire, a legacy of the Munch years, but I agree with your assessment of the sound quality, shown perhaps to greatest disadvantage in Fêtes, where the swimmy acoustic completely blurs chattering woodwind lines. Nuages and Sirènes do sound wonderfully atmospheric, though. If memory serves, this recording was one of the first made by DG in Boston, and it wouldn't be surprising if their engineers had failed to crack a tricky venue immediately.

The original issue came in a lavish gold box which I had to relinquish for space reasons. At the time -- & Roger will correct me if I'm in error -- a premium price DG LP cost 37/6 in pre-decimal shillings and pence, or just over £25 in today's money, so the approximately double amount demanded by the new Emile Berliner version on 180g vinyl seems a tad cheeky unless the quality has improved markedly. Incidentally, I agree with the comments upthread lamenting the poor pressing-quality of British LPs in the 70s, particularly EMI, compared to Philips and DG. Back in those pre-digital days I became relentless in returning the most egregiously offensive examples to my local record emporium, perhaps several times, until I received a good copy.

[Roger Webb]

The original issue came in a lavish gold box which I had to relinquish for space reasons. At the time -- & Roger will correct me if I'm in error -- a premium price DG LP cost 37/6 in pre-decimal shillings and pence.................

That would be about right, although if you didn't shop around you could easily pay 2 Guineas - in 1970 I was working on a radio station in Malta, and not in the retail trade, and bought my own LPs though the station's account with Tandy's (anyone remember them?), so got them at trade and tax-free.....I still have a Decca Lp with 21/6 pencilled on the back, which is about what I would have paid.

I really would love to try some of the DG Original Source re-issues as the mid-seventies is bang-on when I built a large part of my collection - I concur about pressing quality....although this wasn't the only problem, as poor quality copy tapes (2nd or 3rd generation) sent out to other countries other than the originator of the recording were used to master and press LPs - some American pressings of European releases are said to be in this category. Later reissues were sometimes worse (DG, looking at you here!) as to get longer sides the bass was cut down.....the Original Source are said to be particularly good in restoring these to how they should sound.

[oliver sudden]

I wish that I had never clicked on the link but, as Presto had the Mahler 6 and, more attractively to me, the Abbado/Boston SO Debussy/Ravel (very special for all sorts of non-musical reasons) in stock. Currently heading my way so I'll report back in due course.

Strangely enough that very LP was I think the first one I played when I first had a ‘modern’ turntable (by which I just mean one in the 2010s rather than 1990s). It was also the first time in ages I had played a piece of recorded music and simply sat there for the duration of it, without being the least bit tempted to reach for a phone or laptop or similar.

[smittims]

I remember full-price Lps being 38 shillings in 1968, which I guess is about £45-£48 in today's spending power, though this of course depends what youre spending it on, some things, e.g. electrical goods , were more expensive then in real,terms while books, magazines, etc. were cheaper . I once read the Mars Bar is the most constant guide to monetary change, though I don't know if that is still so, as chocolate seems more expensive in real terms now than it was in 1968.

I think 'Ace of Clubs' LPs were 21 shillings, and 'Music for Pleasure' 12s6d then 13s11d when there was a change in purchase tax. Another historical detail many may remember is that every retailer had to charge the same price; it was called 'retail price maintenance' and I think it applied to books also.

Yesterday I played what I think is the best-sounding LP I've ever heard: Mozart's Serenade K361 by the Netherlands Wind Ensemble, a 1980 reissue of a 1968 Philips recording, bought in a charity shop last week. I honestly could not distinguish the sound from a CD. . .

[Roger Webb]

........... Another historical detail many may remember is that every retailer had to charge the same price; it was called 'retail price maintenance' and I think it applied to books also.........

Retail Price Maintenance (RPM) ended (officially!) in 1964, but for books the Net Book Agreement persisted until 1995. Some record companies had a 'Recommended Price', strongly suggesting that discounters wouldn't have the backing of the record company - in dealership listing, for example - although many did deals 'on the quiet'.....I was promised the earth if I took a certain quantity of a new release!

The strangest 'Recommended Price' was for Lyrita (one of my favourites) which Richard Itter set at £5.52 for quite a long time!

[richardfinegold]

Couldn't agree more. I used to make a point of looking out for records that were pressed in Germany or Holland as the British pressings were so terrible. I pretty much gave up buying EMI issues because of the poor quality (although the DMM discs that appeared latterly were better).

Same here. I remember being so frustrated with records. I couldn’t afford the DG or Phillips records and even if I shelled out for them after a few playing the pops and clicks would start to accumulate and it would be so maddening

[Roger Webb]

...................... after a few playing the pops and clicks would start to accumulate and it would be so maddening

That seems to suggest the records were OK when you bought them Richard...or at least they got worse. It seems the likely cause is/was static attracting dust - it can be the devil to combat, just look at YouTube posts on keeping vinyl clean and static free. My LPs are as pristine as the day they were bought (some getting on for fifty years ago. Firstly I persisted with finding a good pressing in the first place, and like Maclintick above would take them back if not acceptable - after I had my own record shop, it was no problem!

The secret I found lay in treating them as early as possible, that is as soon as a pressing played OK I would apply Permastat anti-static spray. This magical but much maligned product - now difficult to find - I have treated much of my collection....and if used correctly will protect your vinyl for at least 50 years! Those who have not had success with this treatment, either haven't used it properly, or have unreasonable expectations; they think treating faulty/damaged records will turn them into pristine ones....it won't.

I still treat records with Permastat - there is a source in Holland if you search online...I recently bought two complete kits (at a price!), they should see me out!