FM / DAB coverage

[Dave2002]

HMG still pushes on with notions of turning off FM at some time.

I recently drove to and from Scotland, and using FM there were several spots where FM coverage was effetively nil, despite my car radio having the automatic alternative station select feature. This happened in Scotland - probably along the M90 and also in the upper stretches of the M6 and the sections of the M74/A74 (M) which are its continuation into Scotland. I would be interested to know whether DAB radio reception would be any better in those areas. I rather doubt it, but its always possible to be pleasantly surprised.

We gave up on the B minor mass Prom due to the poor reception travelling back to the South, though we'd heard most of it earlier in the week in a performance on COTW.

I wonder if those who are advocating a rapid switchover from FM are taking the view that DAB coverage doesn't actually have to be any better than the current FM coverage, so that if reception is poor now, then it will be "acceptable" to have poor or zero reception when using DAB. Perhaps the same planners who have decided that listeners/viewers in parts of Scotland would rather have BBC Alba than Radio 3 on Freeview will be involved?

[mangerton]

HMG still pushes on with notions of turning off FM at some time.

I recently drove to and from Scotland, and using FM there were several spots where FM coverage was effetively nil, despite my car radio having the automatic alternative station select feature. This happened in Scotland - probably along the M90 and also in the upper stretches of the M6 and the sections of the M74/A74 (M) which are its continuation into Scotland. I would be interested to know whether DAB radio reception would be any better in those areas. I rather doubt it, but its always possible to be pleasantly surprised.

Dave, the M90 from about Kinross north until you get over the hill and within range of the Perth relay is a poor reception area on FM. Parts of the M74 are poor also.

I don't have a DAB radio - and have no desire to get one - so can't speak with much authority. However, the local DAB transmitter here is shared with the area's main TV transmitter - Angus. Much of Dundee, including my area, is unable to receive TV from this site because of local topography (The Dundee Law), so I can't imagine that DAB reception will be good. Equally, I can't see the broadcasters doing much about it, given that TV viewers have been fobbed off with a reduced number of multiplexes from the Tay Bridge relay.

FM reception where I am is OK on mono, but very noisy in stereo. It is broadcast from a site near Forfar.

[DracoM]

Significant bits of Cumbria / North Lancs /Dumfries and Galloway are indeed very iffy for both FM and DAB.

But as our bean counters, publicists, and legislators live and move and have their being metaphorically or literally within the palissade of the M25, do they care and what do you expect?

[Resurrection Man]

A timely reminder, Dave, for people to respond to the feedback requested here http://www.culture.gov.uk/news/media_releases/9176.aspx

and discussed in this thread http://www.for3.org/forums/showthrea...on-steamroller

[Dave2002]

A timely reminder, Dave, for people to respond to the feedback requested here http://www.culture.gov.uk/news/media_releases/9176.aspx

and discussed in this thread http://www.for3.org/forums/showthrea...on-steamroller

Ah, the well known consultation trick. Many of these have closing dates in the summer. I couldn't possibly comment that those who design them hope that people will not notice, or forget, and then go on holiday, and when they come back will discover the outcome will not be what they'd hoped. The response of course will be "there was a consultation ...". This happens every year and not only in issues relating to broadcasting.

The closing date is 31st August.

[salymap]

I hope we keep both DAB and FM for lots of reasons. I've never fallen for the consultation trick since I had a letter from my MP saying ourlocal postoffice would not be closed. It closed that very day.

[Dave2002]

mangerton

I'll try to remember to take a DAB set with me when I next drive up to Scotland, and check out the performance on some of the roads you mentioned. I doubt whether the performance will be better than FM - which as you have said, is itself not very good.

DracoM

Perhaps the bean counters, politicians et al do very occasionally go on holiday, or travel further north than Oxford, and maybe some of them do find the lack of good services around the country a slight inconvenience, but it's probably forgotten within a few weeks when they return to the London area.

Having said that though, some services around the capital are not good either. In the last decade we've seen the rise of Wi-Fi and 3G/4G networks. This is, admittedly, fairly new technology, and it is progressing. There are huge black spots for 3G/4G networks (the latter has barely got under way), and such black spots can even be observed on the tube line from Wimbledon to Earls Court, and on the Thameslink line from Wimbledon up to Bedford. The providers of such services are, like many other organisations, happy to induce sales, but less willing to address service issues.

3G on the lines up from Kings Cross to Scotland is rather (euphemism for "very") iffy, and the Wi-Fi on the trains which one might imagine could be used in areas where 3G doesn't work well, is equally (perhaps more so) challenged. The Wi-Fi is free in first class carriages on East Coast trains, but has to be paid for in second class. The situation is not really much better on the west coast Pendolino services run by Virgin. Anyone who seriously imagines that they can do any work using the unreliable wireless connections on trains will be severely disappointed if they try. I don't know what technology is used to support Wi-Fi on trains. I had thought that some operators were intending to use leaky coax distribution along the track side, which should provide fairly continuous connectivity.

Sorry - this is a bit of digression, but since 3G (and 4G if it ever arrives and works properly in the UK) and Wi-Fi are reportedly viable ways of receiving digital radio via the iPlayer or similar software tools, I thought it might be useful to mention this.

To return briefly to Scotland and "remote" northern parts, I don't think many people in the South realise that not only are radio and TV services above 54 degrees north technically challenged, but that the service providers themselves must be aware of this, but have configured services in such a way that services which in other parts of the country mostly work adequately, cannot possibly provide the same level of service in affected areas. We have addressed the issue of why Freeview in Wales is able to support R3, yet in parts of Scotland it is not. elsewhere. I am curious to know why, as most of the country has now switched TV over to digital, and many of the multiplexes have now gone to 64 QAM with greater capacity, that areas such as Dundee are not able to receive R3 via Freeview. The explanation that the capacity was needed to support BBC Alba could perhaps no longer be true if the multiplexes have been reconfigured.

[johncorrigan]

Dave, I know I don't have the greatest radio aerial in the motor but on a journey from Kirriemuir to Iona a few weeks back the FM signal disappeared around Crieff, reappeared briefly in Oban and then disappeared down the length of Mull. If I return via Loch Tay and Aberfeldy the signal only reappears this side of Dunkeld, about 20 miles west of here - likewise if we take the North Road back via Ardgour, Fort William and Dalwhinnie, the signal reappears about three or four miles north of Blairgowrie. Although, as mangerton says, the transmitter is in Forfar, the reception travelling along the south side of Strathmore is really poor, going in and out. We're hardly in the middle of nowhere here, and the dab seems OK though I don't have much to compare it with - but you should hear the AM - a bit like them old Radio Luxemburg days. But a lot of local radio is on the FM and if it were removed I expect any local radio would go with it.

[Dave2002]

Johnc

You say you have DAB. Is that static, in your home, or mobile, in your car or other vehicle?

Obviously the terrain in some parts of the North creates additional problems, with many hills and mountains. A single mountain might be useful, as a transmitter could be put on top, as at the hill at Pontop Pike, but an area with many mountains or hills may give rise to a large number of valleys, and these present extra challenges.

[mangerton]

Dave, I know I don't have the greatest radio aerial in the motor but on a journey from Kirriemuir to Iona a few weeks back the FM signal disappeared around Crieff, reappeared briefly in Oban and then disappeared down the length of Mull. If I return via Loch Tay and Aberfeldy the signal only reappears this side of Dunkeld, about 20 miles west of here - likewise if we take the North Road back via Ardgour, Fort William and Dalwhinnie, the signal reappears about three or four miles north of Blairgowrie. Although, as mangerton says, the transmitter is in Forfar, the reception travelling along the south side of Strathmore is really poor, going in and out. We're hardly in the middle of nowhere here, and the dab seems OK though I don't have much to compare it with - but you should hear the AM - a bit like them old Radio Luxemburg days. But a lot of local radio is on the FM and if it were removed I expect any local radio would go with it.

johnc, FM on your journey to Mull as you describe is very much what I'd expect. What about DAB on the same journey?

Yes, I remember Luxembourg well, and I'm not at all surprised to hear that AM is much the same - including R4 LF, I imagine. As you say, I expect that local radio would disappear, not that that would be any great loss! In fact all I can really get here is Wave FM - hardly surprising, considering the transmitter is almost literally on top of me.

[An_Inspector_Calls]

Well, this is a map of 2011 DAB coverage:

http://maps.ofcom.org.uk/dab/index.html

which doesn't look good. But then, I'm in a 70-90 % area and if that's the case then Ofcom are using a very pessimistic method of assessing DAB coverage. This plan for future enhancements from Ofcom might explain some of the pessimism shown in the map:

http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/consultations/dab-coverage-planning/summary

It suggests they're aimning for better-than-FM coverage. If they can only increase the bit rate for R3 to 320 kbps they'd also remove complaints about audio quality.

[DracoM]

Well, if that map is accurate, surely any govt insisting on FM turn-off have got a mega vote-loser on their hands when the issues are debated widely, haven't they?

[Dave2002]

Well, if that map is accurate, surely any govt insisting on FM turn-off have got a mega vote-loser on their hands when the issues are debated widely, haven't they?

Who knows? Never under estimate the ways of the population at large.

Simply matching FM does not seem good enough to me, and it's clear that in Scotland and some other parts of the UK that the FM service is not satisfactory.

Re bit rate on DAB, for plain old DAB I suspect that 192kbps or 225 kbps would be good enough for most people, particularly if in cars.
Despite what HMG and the BBC say, I think it's inevitable that services will be switched to DAB+ or some other DAB variant, which will permit lower bit rates for the same perceived quality, or higher perceived quality for the same bit rates. Apart from early adopters, such as myself, this is not likely to cause too many problems. My kit will go to landfill or a museum!

Also channels such as Radio 4 can probably, for the most part, manage with lower bit rates, as mostly their output is speech. However, there might be some pressure for higher bit rates on some of the other channels, as (even if I don't like it ...) some of the "music" enthusiasts who listen to other channels say that they can hear the difference between the now typical R3 bit rates and the lower rates used on most of the other channels.

DAB was touted as being good for mobile users. If there is not coverage along most of the major roads, and some of the other less frequented areas, then that would be yet another claim which turns out to be untrue - another being "CD quality". I think mobile users are important, and not only for that great car park round London called the M25.

[DracoM]

Got this from DCMS via my local MP.


" We acknowledge that some parts of the country are not currently well served by DAB. To address this, Government has recently announced the signing of a Memorandum of Understanding which sets out the framework for up to £21 million of investment into local DAB infrastructure. This will support the increase of local DAB coverage initially to 90% of FM equivalence to fulfil the Government criteria for radio switchover, and then to match FM equivalence across the UK. The Memorandum of Understanding represents the commitment from Government, the BBC and the radio industry to work together in the planning and implementation of local DAB build-out.

The BBC continues to improve the coverage of its national network, which currently reaches over 92% of the population, with a commitment to reach 97% by 2015. Additionally, the national commercial multiplex Digital One has identified improvements in order to deliver DAB reception which is comparable to Classic FM’s analogue transmitter network.

At this point we cannot confirm plans or a timetable for DAB coverage build-out to cover XXXXX. However, we will consider and agree as part of the forthcoming planning and implementation work a firm timetable for build-out in XXXXX. This work will be completed in 2013. Department for Culture, Media and Sport

Government has committed to make an in-principle decision in 2013 on whether or not to proceed with a radio switchover. The in-principle decision will provide the certainty to industry to invest in digital radio infrastructure, equipment and content. It will also provide certainty to consumers on the digital future for radio and allow them to make well-informed purchasing decisions.

Government has been clear that any radio switchover will be consumer-led, and remains committed to satisfying the criterion that at least 50% of all radio listening is to digital before a switchover date can be set. This criterion will not be achieved unless consumers are willingly and voluntarily adopting digital radio. "


Hope this clarifies?

[johncorrigan]

johnc, FM on your journey to Mull as you describe is very much what I'd expect. What about DAB on the same journey?

Hadn't even considered DAB in the car, mangerton - it wasn't in there when I got it -I thought it might move around a bit much - must investigate. I like DAB in the house mind you.