The Gold, Silver and Bronze pro-Olympics Thread

[Flosshilde]

I am very excited about the men's gymnastic win .

I do get very excited by the men's gymnastics, but probably for all the wrong reasons.

[Flosshilde]

They are representing Great Britain and almost certainly not the Little England that you, the Daily Mail and like-minded souls appear to represent.

You are entitled to your narrow, anglo-centric view of what it means to be British. However, the Scots and Welsh are just as entitled to hold a rather broader view, and certainly need no lectures from anywhere else as to how they should act and behave before being considered by the 'anywhere elsers' to be truly 'British'.

I do think that Lat needs to come back to planet Earth. He seems to have gone completely off recently.

[johncorrigan]

Effectively, under Mr Salmond's direction, Scotland can be Scotland and we can be British, Great Britain, the British Isles and where it suits us the United Kingdom. We can also be English, Welsh, Northern Irish.

While I see that you are surmising certain things Lat, I think it unlikely that Scotland will vote to come out of the Union - there are plenty of us who are fine with Salmond's Civic nationalism and who vote for the Nats but we'd rather stay in and keep you folks downstairs in order - I am Scottish and then British; I was brought up a West of Scotland Catholic and have big issues about singing God Save the Queen (the song's got nothing to do with being British for me) - it's the way I was brought up ( I don't sing Flower of Scotland either - I've got issues with it too), but I have no objection to Britishness. I do not support the England Rugby team but will support the British Lions - I support England at cricket except when they're playing India ( Scotland doesn't really have a team at that) - I do not support team GB footie in the Limpets but I don't think footie should be in there anyway (nor Tennis by the way) - Scotland FA had big issues with the whole GB footie thing, I think rightly, and with Pearce in charge it is obviously English based ( who made that decision? - actually I don't really care!). We are as much able to be Scottish and British as English folks are able to be British and English, and we have our issues about it too. We maybe think about it a bit more 'cos we're a wee country next to a big loud country. I don't think you'll be getting rid of us that easy.

[Flosshilde]

to represent Britain requires singing the national anthem.

Nonsense - I could represent Britain without singing a song that asks God (which I don't believe in) to save the representative of an institution I disagree with. To do otherwise would be grossly hypocritical.

[scottycelt]

No. Czechoslovakia split into two. Yugoslavia and the Soviet Union fragmented. None of that occurred wholly peacefully. Here, if change happens, it will be because it was requested and granted. It isn't a tug of war.

Scotland is just the loss of one part of a country that has many components. When Germany lost Alsace-Lorraine, it was still Germany, albeit West Germany for different reasons. If Spain were to lose the Basque country, it would still be Spain. I don't see the need for major renegotiation other than in the formalities of Scotland's severance.

The United Kingdom of England, Wales and Northern Ireland is still the United Kingdom. Great Britain, comprising England, Wales and other territories, is still Great Britain. Changing names would be bad for business.

'Requested' ?... 'granted' ?... what sort of pathetically craven folk do you think we Scots are ... ? ... you obviously haven't brushed up on your British history.

[Flosshilde]

I enjoyed the gymnastics today. That's the positive bit.

Scottycelt - I never said that the SFA were being anti-British because I don't think they were being anti-British. I think that they were being pro-Scottish like the SNP are pro-Scottish and that's not a problem for me. I thought I had made that clear.

But none of your arguments are clear - they are hopelessly confused & muddled.

You can be only Scottish or Scottish and British but you can't be Scottish and British and anti-British.

Just as I implied in my reply to mangerton, the part of those footballers and their supporters that is anti-British is actually anti-English. The anti-British part is a prism through which some Scottish people are attacking the English. It is that way round and not vice versa. It is unhealthy and when it happens it is likely to get a very robust response.

As for your definition of Britishness as mere citizenship, it would if applied as a principle to other countries make any national culture redundant. Why then would you wish to celebrate Scottish culture? It makes no sense.

This is utter nonsense. You would be Scottish because you were born in Scotland; as Scotland is part of Britain you would be also Brittish. But you could be anti-British because you believed that Scotland should be independent and that there should be no 'Britain' or 'British' people.

I think that most people who would like Scotland to be independent - and hence 'anti-British - are not actually anti-English; they would be quite happy for England and the English to carry on, but stop interfering in Scottland.

[Lateralthinking1]

While I see that you are surmising certain things Lat, I think it unlikely that Scotland will vote to come out of the Union - there are plenty of us who are fine with Salmond's Civic nationalism and who vote for the Nats but we'd rather stay in and keep you folks downstairs in order - I am Scottish and then British; I was brought up a West of Scotland Catholic and have big issues about singing God Save the Queen (the song's got nothing to do with being British for me) - it's the way I was brought up ( I don't sing Flower of Scotland either - I've got issues with it too), but I have no objection to Britishness. I do not support the England Rugby team but will support the British Lions - I support England at cricket except when they're playing India ( Scotland doesn't really have a team at that) - I do not support team GB footie in the Limpets but I don't think footie should be in there anyway (nor Tennis by the way) - Scotland FA had big issues with the whole GB footie thing, I think rightly, and with Pearce in charge it is obviously English based ( who made that decision? - actually I don't really care!). We are as much able to be Scottish and British as English folks are able to be British and English, and we have our issues about it too. We maybe think about it a bit more 'cos we're a wee country next to a big loud country. I don't think you'll be getting rid of us that easy.

Well, that John is pretty much Anna's position in regard to Wales except that she does sing God Save the Queen. I supported her. I was clear earlier on that Scottish and British is good and Scottish only is good. In fact, many might have picked up on hints in my contributions that I think Scottish and British is best. But I can also tolerate Scottish only, ie independence if that is what is ultimately wanted and can be achieved peacefully. It would be democracy in action even if it wasn't my preference.

You might recall that I have said in the past that if I lived in Scotland or Wales I would probably vote for the nationalists. I had in mind economic reasons and that still applies. My long-term enjoyment of celtic culture is also well documented.

But when Ms Little snubbed the Queen, I could cheerfully have passed a law banning the playing of bagpipes. It really upset me, not that I have ever been an ardent royalist, but because there is a sense of community around the monarchy that has been essential as an antidote both to a divisive Coalition and the summer riots. I should have thought that the national anthem could be sung with reference to 2011-2012 rather than to past centuries that none of us will really properly know.

Flosshilde,

I can only return to what I said about representation. If you are representing Britain, you can't also be against it. You might think that the national anthem isn't relevant. I think it is and it isn't just me. So does the SFA and footballer Julie Fleeting, a friend of Kim Little, who decided not to take part in Team GB. If you aren't representing Britain, feel free to be your version of British.

[scottycelt]

Well, that John is pretty much Anna's position in regard to Wales except that she does sing God Save the Queen. I supported her. I was clear earlier on that Scottish and British is good and Scottish only is good. In fact, many might have picked up on hints in my contributions that I think Scottish and British is best. But I can also tolerate Scottish only, ie independence if that is what is ultimately wanted and can be achieved peacefully. It would be democracy in action even if it wasn't my preference.

You might recall that I have said in the past that if I lived in Scotland or Wales I would probably vote for the nationalists. I had in mind economic reasons and that still applies. My long-term enjoyment of celtic culture is also well documented.

But when Ms Little snubbed the Queen, I could cheerfully have passed a law banning the playing of bagpipes. It really upset me, not that I have ever been an ardent royalist, but because there is a sense of community around the monarchy that has been essential as an antidote both to a divisive Coalition and the summer riots. I should have thought that the National Anthem could be sung with reference to 2011-2012 rather than to past centuries that none of us will really properly know.

Flosshilde, I can only return to what I said about representation - if you are representing Britain, you can't also be against it. You might think that the national anthem isn't relevant. I do and it isn't just me. So does the SFA and footballer Julie Fleeting, a friend of Kim Little, who decided not to take part in Team GB. If you aren't representing Britain, feel free to be your version of British.

But you haven't yet answered the question I posed ... is it now mandatory, as the Daily Mail seems to believe, for every British sportsperson, whether English, Scots, Welsh or Northern Irish, to be seen singing the National Anthem before every event?

If so, when was this strange new rule brought in ... ?

[Lateralthinking1]

But you haven't yet answered the question I posed ... is it now mandatory, as the Daily Mail seems to believe, for every British sportsperson, whether English, Scots, Welsh or Northern Irish, to be seen singing the National Anthem before every event?

If so, when was this strange new rule brought in ... ?

Well, you haven't answered my question set many hours ago about how you define the Britishness of Little and Giggs and how you define your own Britishness. You said that you just had to be a Briton. There is nothing proactive or of loyalty in that response.

My answer is that I don't expect mature adults to require a law to show a consistency in values, appreciation of privilege, loyalty to team and supporters, and common courtesy. If they don't have those traits, they aren't qualified to represent Britain.

[scottycelt]

Well, you haven't answered my question set many hours ago about how you define the Britishness of Little and Giggs and how you define your own Britishness. You said that you just had to be a Briton. There is nothing proactive or of loyalty in that response.

My answer is that I don't expect mature adults to require a law to show a consistency in values, appreciation of privilege, loyalty to team and supporters, and common courtesy. If they don't have those traits, they aren't qualified to represent Britain.

Well, I obviously gave an answer as you've just repeated it though you clearly don't accept it!

The inhabitants of these islands consist of many different races and viewpoints, and individuals approach things differently and in their own way.

There is absolutely no evidence that Little and Giggs lack any of the qualities you outline is necessary to represent Britain. They did not insult anyone or anything. They simply chose to act (or rather not act) as they saw fit These players have shown absolute commitment on the field of play. It's the Daily Mail which has (typically) sought to sow the seeds of division in the team and country, not the players.

This silly affair only proves how right the SFA were to advise Scottish players against playing for Team GB. Little chose to ignore that advice and stand dignified and silent during the National Anthem. She had every right to do both

As for myself, I hope TeamGB get the gold medal and Kim Little scores the winning goal in the final!

[Northender]

Why isn't Kim Little representing North Korea?

[scottycelt]

Why isn't Kim Little representing North Korea?

[AmpH]

As a long time cycling enthusiast, I had a smashing day out following the Mens Cycling Road Race last Saturday in deepest Surrey. Despite the disappointing result, the day was characterised by huge crowds showing tremendous enthusiasm ( a litttle too much for the inadequate marshalling at times ! ) as well as the kind of Olympic spirit, good humour and general bonhomie which appears to be rather lacking in this thread of late.

Today, I am looking forward to cheering on Emma Poole, Lizzie Armitstead, Chris Froome and Bradley Wiggins from the roadside in the Time Trials. Lets hope for more GB medal success and in particular that ' Wiggo ' can overcome his recent exertions in the Tour de France and Road Race to claim our first gold medal of the Games. He will however face particularly stiff competition from Tony Martin ( Germany ) and defending champion Fabian Cancellara ( Switzerland ) who I understand will ride despite crashing in the Road Race last Saturday. I suspect that the course will be too flat for Poole and Froome.

[amateur51]

But you haven't yet answered the question I posed ... is it now mandatory, as the Daily Mail seems to believe, for every British sportsperson, whether English, Scots, Welsh or Northern Irish, to be seen singing the National Anthem before every event?

If so, when was this strange new rule brought in ... ?

Turning the bottle around the other way, look what happens when a British politician representing an English constituency and holding down a job representing British Government to the people of Wales (and vice versa) is found out.

Should he have stayed schtum or should he have showed his contempt for the Welsh side of his job?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIwBvjoLyZc

He chose the latter.

Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and put the matter beyond doubt

[Lateralthinking1]

We've just got a gold. I was in Tescos.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/olympics/18905412

(Born Lossiemouth and Truro, one educated in Cardiff)

Positive word of the Olympics - Amazing

Negative word of the Olympics - Naysayers