Fleedom of Information (literally)

[Serial_Apologist]

I note that Tony Blair now regrets one of the very few progressive policies of New Labour - passing the Freedom of Information Act.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18987496

Blair now believes it put too many restrictions on on the Civil Surface.

[amateur51]

I note that Tony Blair now regrets one of the very few progressive policies of New Labour - passing the Freedom of Information Act.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18987496

Blair now believes it put too many restrictions on on the Civil Surface.

With every passing pronouncement, Blair succeeds only in undermining the thing he prized most, his legacy.

One of the characteristics of New Labour, a government stacked with lawyers, is that it passed legislation with inadequate time for parliamentary scrutiny, time and again. Whether this was an attempt to secure future work for their trade or because they were just plain arrogant as lawyer-politicians often are (no reflection on any of our lawyer members, of course ) I can't tell - maybe others can.

At the end of S_A's link

"But one constitutional expert said the wider benefits of FOI for the democratic process had been "over-sold" by its supporters.

"It has not achieved its secondary aims of improving the quality of government decision-making or increasing public understanding of those decisions," said Professor Robert Hazell, from University College London's Constitution Unit.

"Nor has it led to an increase in public trust, or public participation in government." "

What it has revealed is the contempt in which ministers and senior civil servants apparently hold the public, using as they have private e-mail addresses etc and in one case an unnetworked PC in an attempt to throw the FOI hounds off the scent. I think that what the public has seen arising out of FOI requests is exactly how decision-making takes place.

The Executive doesn't need to change what it does to regain our trust; it needs to change how it does it, i.e., honestly and openly and treating us as adults. The role of the Press & Media here is significant, as we can but hope that Lord Justice Leveson comes up with some proposals that will mesh with FOI legislation to make the activities of the Executive more accountable to Parliament (through members and through select committees) and to the the people.

I am very disturbed by Blair's stated ambitions to return to public life in UK. Don't hobble the Labour Party or the body politic with the spin of yesteryear, Tone. Stick to you Faith Foundation and keep chatting to God

[Flosshilde]

I am very disturbed by Blair's stated ambitions to return to public life in UK. Don't hobble the Labour Party or the body politic with the spin of yesteryear, Tone. Stick to you Faith Foundation and keep chatting to God

He already has - advising the Labour party on the Limpics legacy -

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/jul/11/labour-adviser-tony-blair

Probably be as successful as he has been as the Middle East peace envoy.

[amateur51]

He already has - advising the Labour party on the Limpics legacy -

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/jul/11/labour-adviser-tony-blair

Probably be as successful as he has been as the Middle East peace envoy.

Olympic legacy? - y'see that's the Gods again, innit

[Serial_Apologist]

Olympic legacy? - y'see that the Gods again, innit

Your point about Blair undermining his own legacy is well made, Ams. The man was being interviewed the other day saying how interested he was in religion's influence - malign in his view as regards a lot of Islam in the world - while at the same time being unwilling to talk about his own religious views. The words Delusions of Grandeur come to mind...

[Ariosto]

IF there was any justic in this world Tony Bliar would be dangling on the end of a rope, mass murderer as he is.

[Serial_Apologist]

IF there was any justic in this world Tony Bliar would be dangling on the end of a rope, mass murderer as he is.

I wonder what happened to all those putative moves to have him up before the War Crimes tribunal.

[vinteuil]

I'm not at all sure that "Freedom of Information" is an unmixed good. Perhaps I spent too much of my time working in government service, but I can see the advantages of a degree of privacy if not to say secrecy at various stages of the process of determining policy. Civil servants, advisers, politicians need to have an arena in which they can discuss all sorts of options - including the most outlandish - in a free, untrammelled and unspied-upon atmosphere - to work out what might be the most workable solution - which can then be subject to any kind of scrutiny you like.

If you make all meetings at which decisions are to be made 'open', then decision makers will self-censor; and then inevitably the real decisions will be made in the corridors, antechambers, and lavatories of power.

I may have been a Guardian reader - but the platonic ideal of "open government" is not one I see as a simple 'good idea'.

[amateur51]

If you make all meetings at which decisions are to be made 'open', then decision makers will self-censor; and then inevitably the real decisions will be made in the corridors, antechambers, and lavatories of power.

I thought that Blair did it all with chums on the sofa, vints.

And of course Dr Fox dispensed with notes takers and relied on his chum Mr Werrity

Perhaps I spent too much of my time working in government service, ...[ ] ..and then inevitably the real decisions will be made in the corridors, antechambers, and lavatories of power.

Did you rise to the dizzy heights of having your own Marigolds and a brush, vints?

[Serial_Apologist]

I'm not at all sure that "Freedom of Information" is an unmixed good. Perhaps I spent too much of my time working in government service, but I can see the advantages of a degree of privacy if not to say secrecy at various stages of the process of determining policy. Civil servants, advisers, politicians need to have an arena in which they can discuss all sorts of options - including the most outlandish - in a free, untrammelled and unspied-upon atmosphere - to work out what might be the most workable solution - which can then be subject to any kind of scrutiny you like.

If you make all meetings at which decisions are to be made 'open', then decision makers will self-censor; and then inevitably the real decisions will be made in the corridors, antechambers, and lavatories of power.

I may have been a Guardian reader - but the platonic ideal of "open government" is not one I see as a simple 'good idea'.

Some kind of ethical framework would need to be devised to determine what remained secret, and for how long, and what put on general view. The present situation - as far as I understand it - that various items remain confidential for decades, is clearly unsatisfactory - many such items not being revealed until after the deaths of many individuals affected by policy mistakes.

In the end there are some policy decisions that have to be taken urgently at some top level, for emergency's sake, but too often one has the impression that stuff remains hushed up to perpetuate cover ups. Leaks are the corollary of cover-ups - to coin an unfortunate phrase.

[vinteuil]

Did you rise to the dizzy heights of having your own Marigolds and a brush, vints?

... you may be surprised - or perhaps you may not be at all surprised - how many significant decisions were made in the lavatories...

When there were discussions as to equal opportunities within the service, I regularly maintained that there wd not be any significant improvements towards equality until the Foreign Office introduced bisexual lavatories.

My card was already marked as someone lacking gravitas - these reiterated opinions of mine merely served to confirm that verdict...

[Resurrection Man]

With every passing pronouncement, Blair succeeds only in undermining the thing he prized most, his legacy.

One of the characteristics of New Labour, a government stacked with lawyers, is that it passed legislation with inadequate time for parliamentary scrutiny, time and again. Whether this was an attempt to secure future work for their trade or because they were just plain arrogant as lawyer-politicians often are (no reflection on any of our lawyer members, of course ) I can't tell - maybe others can.

At the end of S_A's link

"But one constitutional expert said the wider benefits of FOI for the democratic process had been "over-sold" by its supporters.

"It has not achieved its secondary aims of improving the quality of government decision-making or increasing public understanding of those decisions," said Professor Robert Hazell, from University College London's Constitution Unit.

"Nor has it led to an increase in public trust, or public participation in government." "

What it has revealed is the contempt in which ministers and senior civil servants apparently hold the public, using as they have private e-mail addresses etc and in one case an unnetworked PC in an attempt to throw the FOI hounds off the scent. I think that what the public has seen arising out of FOI requests is exactly how decision-making takes place.

The Executive doesn't need to change what it does to regain our trust; it needs to change how it does it, i.e., honestly and openly and treating us as adults. The role of the Press & Media here is significant, as we can but hope that Lord Justice Leveson comes up with some proposals that will mesh with FOI legislation to make the activities of the Executive more accountable to Parliament (through members and through select committees) and to the the people.

I am very disturbed by Blair's stated ambitions to return to public life in UK. Don't hobble the Labour Party or the body politic with the spin of yesteryear, Tone. Stick to you Faith Foundation and keep chatting to God

Am, I am somewhat bemused (but delighted) to find myself 100% in accord with you on this one

[amateur51]

... you may be surprised - or perhaps you may not be at all surprised - how many significant decisions were made in the lavatories...

When there were discussions as to equal opportunities within the service, I regularly maintained that there wd not be any significant improvements towards equality until the Foreign Office introduced bisexual lavatories.

My card was already marked as someone lacking gravitas - these reiterated opinions of mine merely served to confirm that verdict...

Oh I was always being accused of that vints - facetious was another verdict - worry not, settle back, enjoy your retirement & keep an eye on the obit columns

[amateur51]

Leaks are the corollary of cover-ups - to coin an unfortunate phrase.

Triffic S_A - may I see if I can get it embroidered on a t-shirt please?

[amateur51]

Am, I am somewhat bemused (but delighted) to find myself 100% in accord with you on this one

That's made my morning, RM