Off to St. Florians

[Guest]

At last! I'm visiting St. Florians and other places associated with the great Anton B. next month. As AB liked trains I'm going by train too.
There's even a performance of symphony '0', one that I've never heard in live performance, although I think it's really rather good. But then I've always rather liked Bruckner's earlier symphonies; they have an energy and enthusiasm that seems to be absent from the more ponderous 'later' symphonies.

[scottycelt]

At last! I'm visiting St. Florians and other places associated with the great Anton B. next month. As AB liked trains I'm going by train too.
There's even a performance of symphony '0', one that I've never heard in live performance, although I think it's really rather good. But then I've always rather liked Bruckner's earlier symphonies; they have an energy and enthusiasm that seems to be absent from the more ponderous 'later' symphonies.

You lucky man/woman ... enjoy your trip!!

However, a correction. There is no evidence Bruckner 'liked trains' in the way that he apparently liked dancing, eating, drinking, saying his prayers, and constantly proposing marriage to unsuitable young ladies! The 'train' thing derives from a BBC radio 'spoof' of which I myself was a naive victim!

I agree with your comments about the energy and enthusiasm of the earlier symphonies and to that I would add 'extremely accomplished'.

However, I submit that the later, even greater symphonies are something a heck of a lot more than 'ponderous' ...

[Serial_Apologist]

However, I submit that the later, even greater symphonies are something a heck of a lot more than 'ponderous' ...

I can't believe I'm reading this!

[scottycelt]

I can't believe I'm reading this!

As you have now responded to the post, the evidence that you actually did might be considered to be somewhat overwhelming, S_A ...

Is there something in the said post that has maybe provoked you to utter incredulity ... ?

[Serial_Apologist]

As you have now responded to the post, the evidence that you actually did might be considered to be somewhat overwhelming, S_A ...

Is there something in the said post that has maybe provoked you to utter incredulity ... ?

Well, I would think so, scotty, given the manner in which you have defended Bruckner to the hilt in the past against charges I have made against the composer for being ponderous, with which you now appear in agreement!

[scottycelt]

Well, I would think so, scotty, given the manner in which you have defended Bruckner to the hilt in the past against charges I have made against the composer for being ponderous, with which you now appear in agreement!

No, there appears to be a slight misunderstanding here, S_A, and I now willingly acknowledge my careless use of ambiguous language in this instance.

Incredible as it may seem, I was probably just being my usual 'ironic' self ...

[tsuji-giri]

As to Bruckner and trains, he was reputed to number the engineer of the Austrian state railways among his friends, there is also a pic of him on a train (plainly enjoying it) and in his lectures he described the interval of a fifth as a 'sort of musical Orient Express because it can take you to distant places very quickly'.
For what it's worth, I'm sure the 8th symphony scherzo depicts some monstrous (steam) machine.
I'm not suggesting however that AB was in the habit of standing on the Vienna Hauptbahnhof station writing down numbers in a little book (although with his known obsessive leanings it wouldn't have been totally out of character)!
There is a story that part of the 4th symphony is based on trains on the nearby railway; I don't myself accept this.
Unfortunately, unless one has the expertise to read original accounts of the composer in German, it's difficult to get to the root of many of these stories.

[Pianorak]

. . . Bruckner's earlier symphonies; they have an energy and enthusiasm that seems to be absent from the more ponderous 'later' symphonies.

There is obviously something wrong with me as AB's symphonies 1-3 and 5 have had a most soporific effect on me - maybe Georg Tintner was to blame? I wonder what his "later" symphonies would do to me?
Anyway, enjoy your trip!

[kernelbogey]

[...] There is a story that part of the 4th symphony is based on trains on the nearby railway; I don't myself accept this.[....]

I believe the origin of this story was a spoof on Music Weekly some years ago and discussed in an earlier thread, which I admit took me in completely at the time.

[scottycelt]

As to Bruckner and trains, he was reputed to number the engineer of the Austrian state railways among his friends, there is also a pic of him on a train (plainly enjoying it) ... .

Aye, that was the main part of the BBC 'spoof' ... his Austrian railway 'friend' ... has anyone actually seen or, even better, got a copy of a photo of Bruckner on any train whether plainly enjoying the experience or not .. ?

If so, I've truly love to add it to my meagre collection!

[french frank]

Aye, that was the main part of the BBC 'spoof' ... his Austrian railway 'friend' ... has anyone actually seen or, even better, got a copy of a photo of Bruckner on any train whether plainly enjoying the experience or not .. ?

If so, I've truly love to add it to my meagre collection!

Best I can find is the IC 101 Prague - Linz locomotive "Anton Bruckner"

Timetable (seat reservation not required).

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

and in his lectures he described the interval of a fifth as a 'sort of musical Orient Express because it can take you to distant places very quickly'.

Oh this was also supposed to be "by" Elgar, describing the Diminished Seventh as "a sort of Musical Clapham Junction: you can get to anywhere from it."

(Dvorak definitely was a (literal) Train-Spotter, though, wasn't he?)

[scottycelt]

Best I can find is the IC 101 Prague - Linz locomotive "Anton Bruckner"

Timetable (seat reservation not required).

Thank you profusely, FF! I shall certainly add this picture to my now slightly less meagre collection.

'Seat Reservation Not Required' ... how extraordinarily bizarre ... I can almost 'picture' some of our more incorrigible forum Brahmsians cruelly sniggering away to themselves.

[BBMmk2]

I never knew that AB loved trains! Good on him!You just cannot beat the old-fashioned steam train I've been on several.

[scottycelt]

There is obviously something wrong with me as AB's symphonies 1-3 and 5 have had a most soporific effect on me - maybe Georg Tintner was to blame? I wonder what his "later" symphonies would do to me?
Anyway, enjoy your trip!

I find the first two symphonies (let's leave Nos 0 and 00 out of this!) very Beethovenian, Schubertian and Mendelssohnian, reinforced with added Brucknerian power. The Third was undoubtedly a bit of a struggle for a composer in transition but it does have its marvellous moments. The Fourth is just great.

The Fifth soporific? That gorgeous slow movement and incomparable, ultimately mind-blowing Finale?. The Sixth is a pure outrageously-neglected delight and the last three speak for themselves, towering masterpieces that they are.

However ... and I trust S-A won't fall off his stool in utter astonishment .... I do confess to finding some of the composer's scherzos rather wearingly repetitive (no 5 included) and that's when my mind tends to look forward in eager anticipation of the majestic glories to come!