So the Met police get away with muder once again!

[johnb]

I have a vague memory - it would need extensive trawling through newspaper reports to confirm - that Harewood was there as a van driver, & wasn't deployed as part of the 'front line', & left his van & decided to wade in. If that's the case, then his actions were even worse in that he abandoned his assigned role & took things into hi own hands.

Your memory hasn't failed you.

A quick google of "PC Harewood van driver" revealed this BBC News item.

[amateur51]

Your memory hasn't failed you.

A quick google of "PC Harewood van driver" revealed this BBC News item.

Well done Flossie and thanks johnb

[Lateralthinking1]

Well done Flossie and thanks johnb

But he was still a uniformed officer. Back in 2001, he wasn't. He was admin following earlier difficulties in uniform with the Met. The person at Surrey who took the decision to put him back in uniform did no favours to the general public, nor although he has been acquitted ultimately to him. The decision appears partially to have been based on ineffective procedures. He had to list criminal convictions on his application - none - and yet not disciplinary action - plenty. That procedural failing has now been rectified.

Had he stayed in admin, Tomlinson would be alive and taxpayers would be better off. Seeing that this case has been costly, the least that we can expect is for a review of all basic procedures. Given his history, I do wonder about his personal background and the extent of psychological profiling on applicants into the police. That must be a key part of tackling these issues in the round.

[MrGongGong]

, the least that we can expect is for a review of all basic procedures. .

NO
the least we should expect is that this dangerous thug is put behind bars and given the treatment he needs to try and address his anger management issues !

[Lateralthinking1]

NO
the least we should expect is that this dangerous thug is put behind bars and given the treatment he needs to try and address his anger management issues !

Well, that depends Mr GG on how you define least. I am setting the minimum bar at institutional reform, rather than restricting it to one individual, much as I have very considerable sympathy with your sentiments. Future prevention, not just current cure.

[MrGongGong]

Well, that depends Mr GG on how you define least. I am setting the minimum bar at institutional reform, rather than restricting it to one individual, much as I have very considerable sympathy with your sentiments. Future prevention, not just current cure.

I think many of us have lost faith entirely with any chance of justice at all in these kind of cases, and we have the gall to condemn other countries for "corruption"
it shames us all ..........

[Lateralthinking1]

That misleading wan look, on the increase and easy to spot -

[kernelbogey]

I think many of us have lost faith entirely with any chance of justice at all in these kind of cases....

The Guardian leader today on the Harwood/Tomlinson case reports:

The campaigning group Inquest has tallied 1,500 deaths following police custody or contact since 1990, not one of which has resulted in an officer being convicted of manslaughter.

I think it is the repeated failure of the justice system, and the repeated success of the police in protecting their own, that is so worrying. Not so much 'all police are bastards' as 'all police will get protected'.

[Lateralthinking1]

[Lateralthinking1]

[MrGongGong]

I hope you are not suggesting we turn the thug police on nice mr G are you ?

[Lateralthinking1]

I hope you are not suggesting we turn the thug police on nice mr G are you ?

Not necessarily.

You might though ask yourself who, on the reintroduction of capital punishment, might be appointed as Chief Executioner.

[LHC]

The decision appears partially to have been based on ineffective procedures. He had to list criminal convictions on his application - none - and yet not disciplinary action - plenty. That procedural failing has now been rectified.

Lat, I think part of the problem was that there had been plenty of allegations, but for a variety of reasons, very few if any had been seen through to a conclusion. For example, his decision to retire on ill-health grounds in 2001 meant that the disciplinary issues he was facing simply ended without any decision having been made. Although it appears that he would have been sacked if he had stayed on, when he was re-employed he could still appear to have an unblemished record, nothing having been proved at that stage.

[Lateralthinking1]

[Lateralthinking1]

Lat, I think part of the problem was that there had been plenty of allegations, but for a variety of reasons, very few if any had been seen through to a conclusion. For example, his decision to retire on ill-health grounds in 2001 meant that the disciplinary issues he was facing simply ended without any decision having been made. Although it appears that he would have been sacked if he had stayed on, when he was re-employed he could still appear to have an unblemished record, nothing having been proved at that stage.

Yes, I think that is true. There is a question about whether he became as he did while in the police or whether it was a part of him beforehand. Such things are probably difficult to ascertain but I wonder if much is done in the police to assess the impacts of long-term policing on certain kinds of officers. It need not just be on aggression but trauma etc assessed against personal profiles.