New Little Red Book in France

[scottycelt]

I'll be in London tomorrow for the demo against job cuts in public services (brought about by the incompetence and greed of the then privately-owned banks).

What about the many thousands of jobs that have already been lost in private industry due to years of hard-earned taxpayers' money propping up greed and incompetence in the public sector, including that of some MPs?

Worth a rather pointless 'demo', too ... ?

[amateur51]

What about the many thousands of jobs that have already been lost in private industry due to years of hard-earned taxpayers' money propping up greed and incompetence in the public sector, including that of some MPs?

Worth a rather pointless 'demo', too ... ?

You posed the question scotty so .... I wonder why there hasn't been one?

Presumably you know the answer ...

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

well i didn't go but rather felt like it until i saw excerpts of the Millpede speech on the news ... what a pandering to the audience ... how about PFI Ed? how many Unison members has that made jobless, all the EDS contracts .... the out of control borrowing by the Broon eh ... [this is not to assert that there is a shred of intellectual honesty in any public forum by the Coal Party either]

i see a Panjandrum from HMR&C had dinner with a nabob from Vodaphone just before the $6bn became described as a 'myth' ...

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I did go and I was surprised by two things:-
1. The huge number of people there, who were friendly, good-humoured and sensible.
2. The mindless idiocy of a few. Not just the criminals who I never saw at all (but did see what they had done to the Bank of Santander and the Ritz), but also the gormless kid who thought climbing on the monuments in Trafalgar Square was somehow "clever".

Up to half a million people were there but only the thugs got the publicity.

[scottycelt]

<The mindless idiocy of a few>

Firstly, EA, I'm glad you had a positive view of the March. People have every right to demonstrate peacefully even if the march is politically-motivated as Saturday's obviously was, and all true democrats will strongly defend that right.

However, I cannot agree that the anarchists and other far-left groups responsible for the violence are mindless idiots ... they are well-organised and quite clever and cunning in their methods. The police have come in for a lot of criticism for their tactics but after the media hysteria about 'kettling' it was hardly surprising they took a different approach on this occasion.

While the scenes witnessed on our TV screens should normally never be allowed to happen on our streets I think on this occasion the police were probably right. Their tactics clearly demonstrated the sort of neo-fascist thuggery these sort of groups are prepared to employ and the police still managed to make over 200 arrests which is a significant haul. They will now probably learn quite a lot about the leading people behind this now recurring violence.

After the first student demonstration against the cuts I was roundly mocked by some on this Forum (or was it the old one?) for merely suggesting the violence then was caused by anarchists, and had little to do with the main demonstration. It was even denied there were any black and red flags in evidence even though some could be clearly seen in amateur video footage at the time.

Anyone members now prepared to claim there were no red and black anarchist banners on the streets of London last Saturday?

Unlike the marchers, the people responsible for the violence and vandalism couldn't give a toss about 'the cuts' ... they are only interested in exploiting any situation to promote their 'revolutionary anarchy'.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

There were banners from all sorts of groups, but the fundamental message was almost universal.

[scottycelt]

There were banners from all sorts of groups, but the fundamental message was almost universal.

Okay, the red and black anarchist thugs with their own 'fundamental message' aside, I'm not sure it was ... the Labour Party led by Ed Miliband readily acknowledges the need for 'the cuts', albeit at a slower pace. Yet there were plenty of banners displaying the message 'No Cuts'.

Which 'almost universal' fundamental message were you marching for, then ... ?

[amateur51]

Okay, the red and black anarchist thugs with their own 'fundamental message' aside, I'm not sure it was ... the Labour Party led by Ed Miliband readily acknowledges the need for 'the cuts', albeit at a slower pace. Yet there were plenty of banners displaying the message 'No Cuts'.

Which 'almost universal' fundamental message were you marching for, then ... ?

What about "An important part of this coalition was not elected to deliver these cuts which are hurting so many people in our society. We marchers want the unelected Government to take note of this march and to rethink its plans ... otherwise we'll have you on 05 May "

Sunnink pithy like that, scotty?

[amateur51]

An illuminating and chilling video & article about the peaceful demo at Fornum's and the mind-boggling way in which the police handled it.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/mar/28/cuts-protest-uk-uncut-fortnum

Police State? That'll Do Nicely, Sir

[scottycelt]

An illuminating and chilling video & article about the peaceful demo at Fornum's and the mind-boggling way in which the police handled it.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/mar/28/cuts-protest-uk-uncut-fortnum

Police State? That'll Do Nicely, Sir

Peaceful demo?!! ... it was preventing people going about their lawful business, not to mention the obvious safety concern of low-paid shopworkers (mostly female) who generally haven't the time and 'privilege' to selfishly disrupt other people's lives on a Saturday afternoon.

Well done the police!

[amateur51]

Peaceful demo?!! ... it was preventing people going about their lawful business, not to mention the obvious safety concern of low-paid shopworkers (mostly female) who generally haven't the time and 'privilege' to selfishly disrupt other people's lives on a Saturday afternoon.

Well done the police!

Under the current commenting restrictions, am I allowed to say something rude directly to scotty, or do I have to wrap it up as a generality?

It is unclear

Just don't want a horde of shoooooshing librarians and former school prefects to come down on me like a ton of bricks

[Lateralthinking1]

I have seen similar situations many times - at football, mainly, when there were no obvious problems in the vicinity and no trespass issues. Sometimes, incompetence has been suspected.

The term "kettling" is relatively new to me. However, I can confirm that between 11.15pm and Midnight, 31 December 1999, on Westminster Bridge - that would be the night of the Mandelson damp squib fireworks - the numbers were such that I just wanted to get away from it. At either end, everyone on the bridge was roped in with lines of police officers refusing exit. People were being treated like cattle, women were screaming, to me it was a bit like being crammed in on a train towards the gas chambers, and I said never again. Welcome to the new century.

On looking at this footage, I feel quite sorry for many of the police officers. They are working to instructions and if ever there are times when they are required to lie through their teeth they must regret how this makes their day-to-day work difficult. It is easier for them to be seen by the public to be honest in their dealings. Without trust, they will be viewed as less than human.

Unfortunately, what appears to be occurring in the film is something like a snapshot of this state. I no longer find it easy to call this a country. Deceit is very arguably the key word in governance, it has been for a decade, and it is getting worse. While Brown was hardly competent, this began with Blair and Cameron is the new Blair. The blame for this deliberate culture - the way that almost everyone who is in work is now working - rests with him.

Keep going fella - the protesters won't pull the state apart. You will do it all on your own and given what it has become right now, you may yet be a hero of the masses as it crumbles but not in the way you anticipated.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I notice David Cameron is begging people to volunteer (i.e. do for nothing something that someone should be paid to do). Personally, if I were out of work, I would happily volunteer for just 1% of a banker's bonus.

[Lateralthinking1]

Not sure if this has been posted here before. Eddie Mair putting Francis Maude on the spot about volunteering:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ty3Tlf4Th8U

(I was the volunteering coordinator for my Directorate in 2010. I left in September in complicated circumstances and left formally at the end of December. Returning in mid-December to sort out my papers for the final time, I had a look at my volunteering board. The emphasis had been to encourage new involvement and inform others how this could be realised with self-initiative. I had chaired a presentation and Q and A session with outside volunteering experts and we had led the way with a project and positive feedback. Nothing at all had happened there on volunteering in the three months of my absence).

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Not sure if this has been posted here before. Eddie Mair putting Francis Maude on the spot about volunteering:

What a sham that was. I hadn't heard that interview.