Which is most immoral ...

[Flosshilde]

Which is the real immorality - same-sex weddings, or spending £100,000 trying to stop them?

Cardinal o'Brien has asked congregations to raise £100,000 (on top of £50,000 already spent) to pay for advertisements attacking same-sex marriage.

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2012/07/08/scotland-catholic-church-declares-war-on-gay-marriage/

[Serial_Apologist]

Which is the real immorality - same-sex weddings, or spending £100,000 trying to stop them?

Cardinal o'Brien has asked congregations to raise £100,000 (on top of £50,000 already spent) to pay for advertisements attacking same-sex marriage.
http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2012/07/08...-gay-marriage/

I'm not at all surprised; but I don't think we should just single out Rome for condemnation in this regard: one only has to think of the thousands of fundamentalist churches in America's Deep South of today, where fire and brimstone preachers preach of girding up their loins to protect the poor people they sting for collections week in, week out, against the Devil stalking their neighborhoods (sic) and minds.

The girding up of loins sounds to me like some bondage practice - but hey, what do I know?

[Flosshilde]

Agreed that they are all at it, but it's the Catholic church in Scotland that's asking its parishioners, who are likely to be among the poorer part of the population, to hand over money specifically for the purpose.

Of course organisations can ask members, and the general public, to donate money to specific causes, but in the case of churches (or mosques, or synagogues, or any other religious group) there is an element of blackmail - if you don't donate you are not a good christian (or muslim, etc), or you won't be 'saved'. & the Catholic church in Scotland has been particularly prominent in this, not least because it has such a strong hold on some politicians.

[Resurrection Man]

..... who are likely to be among the poorer part of the population,....

Proof ?

[ahinton]

I'm not at all surprised; but I don't think we should just single out Rome for condemnation in this regard: one only has to think of the thousands of fundamentalist churches in America's Deep South of today, where fire and brimstone preachers preach of girding up their loins to protect the poor people they sting for collections week in, week out, against the Devil stalking their neighborhoods (sic) and minds.

The girding up of loins sounds to me like some bondage practice - but hey, what do I know?

Too much, by the sound of it!...

Anyway, to return to the topic - I wonder what the Advertising Standards Authority might make of the result and whether, if it disapproves, it will take the kind of action that it usually takes and is indeed charged to take in response to it? I think someone should report this to that organisation and put it to the test.

I am not gay, as it happens and I have to confess that I really do not know what to make of the notion of gay marriage. On the one hand, I don't feel comfortable about it instinctively but, on the other, I cannot help but accept that it is none of my business to seek to interfere in the lives of a substantial sector of society by advocating that it should be disallowed. Who am I to tell anyone that they should not marry? The answer to that being "no one", what on earth does the Roman Catholic Church think that it's doing in adopting the stance that it does and promoting it as though broadly analogous to the "war on terrrr" that once obsessed the benighted (but dangerous) Bushmen of Texas?

It occurs to me that the Roman Catholic Church may be taking a substantial risk in acting in this manner - a risk of an unprecedented backlash not only from the gay community but from a wider sector of society within and without its walls that deplores its stance and actions as plainly and unacceptably undemocratic, whatever view it may or may not have of the "morality" of the subject matter.

But you're quite correct, S-A, in pointing out that other fundamentalist religious organisations - and by no means only Christian ones - get off on the same kind of behaviour, invariably involving the instilling of retributory fear within their communities; instances of this strike me as though the actual matter of gay marriage is all too often little more than a peg on which to hang dictatorial bullying agendas of the kind that equally led to such things as the public destruction of Western musical instruments in the early days of the Islamic Revolution in Iran.

[MrGongGong]

I didn't realise that catholics were going to be forced to get "gay married" ?
what a wonderful example of "christianity in action" this is .......................he should be ashamed of himself
but not much chance of that is there ?

and it really is none of his business anyway

[ahinton]

Proof ?

As you probably already know, there is none, but I have to say that this fact does not of itself undermine Flossie's principal point here, or indeed its importance; this kind of coercive behaviour on the part of any purportedly religious organisation is at least as immoral as some of them contend gay marriage to be and it's no better than the behabiour of doorstep chuggers just because it's done in the name and under the cloak of "the Church". A Church ought indeed to be ashamed of its behaviour when it indulges in this kind of thing which is tantamount to telling its followers that, in matters such as this, they should ignore their individual consciences in deference to that of the Church; whatever kind of Church teaching is that and on what is it suposedly based? I would not presume even to speculate on what Jesus Christ might have thought of gay marriage, but I think that I have a reasonable idea of what he'd have thought about a Church behaving towards its followers in such a manner in His name.

Somehow, I sense a post from scotty coming on, but perhaps I'm wrong and he's wisely keeping his own counsel here...

[ahinton]

I didn't realise that catholics were going to be forced to get "gay married" ?
what a wonderful example of "christianity in action" this is .......................he should be ashamed of himself
but not much chance of that is there ?

and it really is none of his business anyway

Indeed, but let's not tar and feather the Roman Catholic Church purely on the grounds of this particular case in wilful ignorance of similar campaigns and bullying brayings on this and other issues from within other Churches...

[MrGongGong]

Indeed, but let's not tar and feather the Roman Catholic Church purely on the grounds of this particular case in wilful ignorance of similar campaigns and bullying brayings on this and other issues from within other Churches...

other bigots are available ( I should have added in true BBC style)

[Flosshilde]

Proof ?

"Roman Catholics are more likely to live in the 15% most deprived areas of Scotland than other Christian religion groups.
Source: Scottish Household Survey Annual Report [http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/St...icationAnnual] 2009/10 and 2001 Census"

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/People/Equality/Equalities/DataGrid/Religion

[Resurrection Man]

and it really is none of his business anyway

Pot...kettle...black ?

[Resurrection Man]

As you probably alredy know, there is none, ......

Precisely and which is why I take exception to throwaway bigoted comments, such as that made by Flossie, that constantly get thrown into the pot. Stick to verifiable facts by all means. I do wish that people would keep their prejudices out of discussions.

[Resurrection Man]

"Roman Catholics are more likely to live in the 15% most deprived areas of Scotland than other Christian religion groups.
Source: Scottish Household Survey Annual Report [http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/St...icationAnnual] 2009/10 and 2001 Census"

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/Pe...aGrid/Religion

And what about the other 85% ?

[Bryn]

Precisely and which is why I take exception to throwaway bigoted comments, such as that made by Flossie, that constantly get thrown into the pot. Stick to verifiable facts by all means. I do wish that people would keep their prejudices out of discussions.

But the very basis of this discussion is precisely prejudice - that of O'Brien and his ilk. I take it that flossie's link to an aspect of the Scottish Household Survey Annual Report 2009/10 and 2001 Census" is not sufficiently verifiable for you. Seems to me that it you who is the 'pot' in this matter, not MrGG. The bigotry, as ever, lies more with the Abrahamic/Ibrahimic god botherers.

[Bryn]

And what about the other 85% ?

Statistics not your strong point, I see.