Survival of the Fittest PLC (formerly the United Kingdom)

[MrGongGong]

That is such an emotive use of language. Murder ?

If I want to end my life that is my prerogative. If I consider my life to be so intolerable due to whatever disability or illness befalls me then it is my right to end my life. But if I am so incapacitated that I cannot do this and need the help of a third party to do this on my behalf and with my full consent then it is my Human Right that they be allowed to do so. I really feel so sorry for that guy with 'locked-in' syndrome. What happened to his Human Rights?

If you a religious then you may not share your view. That is your prerogative but do not try to enforce your own set of value-judgement on anyone else.

I'm not religious
The man in the news with "locked in syndrome" is more able and communicative than some people I know he isn't "locked in" at all

it is NOT your right to demand that someone else kills you if you decide that its what "you want"
unless you are like my mother who claims that she has NEVER made a decision that she later regretted

I recently had a very scary experience whilst in intensive care in hospital where the family of the man in the bed next to me were trying to have a discussion with the doctors about when they should "turn him off" the man had had a very serious operation (as I had) and was sedated , he , like me is probably running around again and going down the pub !

What is very worrying to me is that many young disabled people are now describing their lives as "a burden" largely as a result of these attitudes so I feel we need to prevent the value judgements of the ill informed being enforced on these people

and YES it does affect me personally

Don't assume that people who are opposed to doctors murdering their patients are religious nutters
and call a spade a spade...........

[Petrushka]

I saw one episode, and I thought, I cannot be an old lady like that, who has no idea, and yes, I thought before I got to that age, probably a bag lady or off her head, I would rather I were dead to be so humiliated and reliant on social services who would say, Oh Bless, She don't even know her own name.

But you see, Anna, by the time you have arrived at such a situation you have lost the power for ever to actually do anything about it. That is what frightens me most.

[french frank]

According to his Wikipedia entry which I have just reviewed, John Cody Fidler-Simpson CBE has also admitted to being a tax avoider.

More correctly 'to having been (potentially)' since he is ending the arrangement before there is any benefit from it.

[Lateralthinking1]

More correctly 'to having been (potentially)' since he is ending the arrangement before there is any benefit from it.

Thank you for the clarification. I think my sentence is accurate in that it only cites what is in his Wikipedia entry on today's date. I will though somewhat generously amend my statement to "he has admitted to having placed his property in an offshore family trust" and I will also add the following article. He has apparently written that article to set the record straight as he sees it and he wants it to be included alongside other references to his financial arrangements. That demand is now met.

The article emphasises, among other things, that there was nothing illegal in those arrangements. There is, of course, nothing illegal in being a tax avoider so the phrase does not imply illegality. It also emphasises that the arrangements were made before his son was born and were therefore not designed to avoid inheritance tax. There is no mention of his daughters or the tone of allegations that any inheritance tax could have been significantly less, if applied at all, had the arrangements not been changed.

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/john-simpson-im-lodging-a-complaint-about-tax-dodging-7917822.html

It isn't clear to me from the wording in any of the articles whether the new arrangements are now in place. What is clear is that he is putting forward several arguments about how he could have avoided income tax if he so wished. He appears to regard paying such tax as an obligation, albeit with reservations. Of particular concern to him is that he should not be seen as being in the same category as Jimmy Carr and certainly that was not suggested here. What I do note is that the Telegraph article claims the changes to his arrangements could be "costing him a six-figure sum in capital gains tax". That doesn't appear to have been denied.

I assume that this adequately addresses all concerned interests.

[Resurrection Man]

I'm not religious
The man in the news with "locked in syndrome" is more able and communicative than some people I know he isn't "locked in" at all

You're doing it again, aren't you. Applying your value-judgements when you have absolutely no right to. You clearly have no concept or empathy with the man with "locked in syndrome". How you can rationalise the fact that he is communicative with his sincere wish to end his life is beyond me. I had you down as someone who cared. ...that's my value-judgement.

it is NOT your right to demand that someone else kills you if you decide that its what "you want"

Yes it is. I would not demand...yet another emotive word...I would ask.

I recently had a very scary experience whilst in intensive care in hospital where the family of the man in the bed next to me were trying to have a discussion with the doctors about when they should "turn him off" the man had had a very serious operation (as I had) and was sedated , he , like me is probably running around again and going down the pub !

Your point is what exactly? How does this have any relevance to someone making a positive request that they wish to have their life ended?

What is very worrying to me is that many young disabled people are now describing their lives as "a burden" largely as a result of these attitudes so I feel we need to prevent the value judgements of the ill informed being enforced on these people

So your value-judgement is perfectly OK to ram down someone's throat but someone with a different view point should not? Great....absolutely great.

and YES it does affect me personally

Don't assume that people who are opposed to doctors murdering their patients are religious nutters
and call a spade a spade...........

What exactly affects you? And you are still using emotive words such as 'murder'

[MrGongGong]

I'm not going to have yet another argument with idiots about this subject
but to answer some of your questions

It's not a "value judgement" to state truth , I have worked with several people with "locked in" syndrome, I know what it's about .......

My point about what happened when I was in hospital is that people are completely ill informed about disability and what it means

I think we are unable as a society to protect our most vulnerable people ....... which includes many of the young disabled people I know and work with, we should maybe for once put them first


Murder is the deliberate killing of your own species ....... like that nice mr Shipman who "helped" his patients to "find peace"

but I guess for those who have NEVER made a decision they later regretted the world must be very simple

[aeolium]

Murder is the deliberate killing of your own species

No, that is not quite accurate. Murder is the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another. Suicide is not murder, and assisted suicide is (legally) not murder in some countries.

argument with idiots

Yes, there doesn't seem much point in having a debate if you believe that yours is the only possible valid opinion to hold, and that anyone holding a different view is an idiot.

[Lateralthinking1]

Would the BBC have aired a programme about blind people which featured a foreign correspondent, and others, saying how terrible it was to be blind and that they would do themselves in if they were to become blind?

No - and that is the double standard being applied.

[teamsaint]

I'm not going to have yet another argument with idiots about this subject
but to answer some of your questions

It's not a "value judgement" to state truth , I have worked with several people with "locked in" syndrome, I know what it's about .......

My point about what happened when I was in hospital is that people are completely ill informed about disability and what it means

I think we are unable as a society to protect our most vulnerable people ....... which includes many of the young disabled people I know and work with, we should maybe for once put them first


Murder is the deliberate killing of your own species ....... like that nice mr Shipman who "helped" his patients to "find peace"

but I guess for those who have NEVER made a decision they later regretted the world must be very simple

Shipman is unlikely to have been a one off either. Quite a lot of patients at Gosport War Memorial Hospital seem to have "found peace" a bit earlier than they wanted.....
(articles are easy to find ).

Dangers lurk everywhere in this .......

[Resurrection Man]

I'm not going to have yet another argument with idiots about this subject
but to answer some of your questions

....

Tsk..tsk..MrGG...from the House Rules "Please treat other members respectfully, even if you disagree with what they are saying".

It has always been my experience that those who resort to name calling do so because deep down they realise that they have lost the argument. Your post does nothing to change that view.