Survival of the Fittest PLC (formerly the United Kingdom)

[vinteuil]

Too modest, RM! - your Too much piano? over on CD Review was quite a doozy in the pointless stakes, imho

whaddaya mean?? points is what asparagus has - and well good they are too!!

Altogether it was one of our more instructive threads, I thought ...

[Lateralthinking1]

(Sketch)

Serena Williams challenged accepted thinking today by winning the womens final at Wimbledon.

A recent study commissioned by the Government had suggested that everyone over the age of 30 was useless and that there was no argument for keeping them alive. In a follow-up television documentary, it was shown that 53% of the general public not only agree but believe that those who have suffered serious illness in their twenties should be bumped off rather earlier.

The extraordinary Williams comeback, following life-threatening blood clots on her lungs, could prompt a change in official policy. However, many people are waiting to see how Roger Federer does tomorrow. While in reasonably good health, he does now officially fall into the category of old has been and is expected to enter the euthanasia programme before the autumn.

(Truth)

Serena has won the womens final at Wimbledon at 30. Her comeback followed life-threatening blood clots on her lungs. Federer, 30, is in the mens final tomorrow. One tennis year is the equivalent to getting on for three life years in an average lifespan.

[teamsaint]

Well said. I agree with you 100% and cannot think of a more pointless thread for a long time.

Really? You REALLY think this is a pointless thread?
Seriously?
Why exactly is it pointless?



Mr GG is spot on on this .
We are in very dangerous territory.

[Resurrection Man]

Too modest, RM! - your Too much piano? over on CD Review was quite a doozy in the pointless stakes, imho

Yebbut..at least it was music related.

[Petrushka]

Like others on here I have an aged parent (in my case my mother) currently in a care home with vascular dementia. The home and staff are wonderful but there is no doubt whatever in my mind that my mother would have been 100% in agreement with John Simpson. She saw her own father end up with a similar condition in 1980 and he was shockingly treated, light years away from the treatment she is now receiving herself.

Having said that, as has been pointed out, these presenters are hugely influential people and they should weigh their words with care and the media has a responsibility not to peddle lies and distortion on this highly emotive topic.

[Anna]

However, many people are waiting to see how Roger Federer does tomorrow. While in reasonably good health, he does now officially fall into the category of old has been and is expected to enter the euthanasia programme before the autumn.

Err, R. Federer was born 1981 - he is consigned to the rubbish bin? Lat, he was born before most of us on here, do you consign us all to the recycling bin?

[Resurrection Man]

Well , I always understood "murder" to mean killing your own species
it seems to be the accepted "morality" that somehow becoming disabled is intolerable and doctors should be allowed to give us a bit of "help" ........

That is such an emotive use of language. Murder ?

If I want to end my life that is my prerogative. If I consider my life to be so intolerable due to whatever disability or illness befalls me then it is my right to end my life. But if I am so incapacitated that I cannot do this and need the help of a third party to do this on my behalf and with my full consent then it is my Human Right that they be allowed to do so. I really feel so sorry for that guy with 'locked-in' syndrome. What happened to his Human Rights?

If you a religious then you may not share your view. That is your prerogative but do not try to enforce your own set of value-judgement on anyone else.

[Resurrection Man]

Really? You REALLY think this is a pointless thread?
Seriously?
Why exactly is it pointless?

It is full of emotive argument and value-judgement. I am also curious to know how many of those who are commenting negatively about John Simpson actually saw the programme or are simply jumping on the bandwagon as the latest 'mot du jour' or 'cause celebre'?

[Lateralthinking1]

Err, R. Federer was born 1981 - he is consigned to the rubbish bin? Lat, he was born before most of us on here, do you consign us all to the recycling bin?

One tennis year = nearly three life years in the average lifespan. Winning at 30 shows what can be achieved against the odds. We should also worry about a society that describes such people as veterans.

Petrushka - Thank you for your comments. I note your mother's perspective. In her position I might think the same. I also feel that such thinking would be wrong. In these instances, I believe the right to self-determination comes second and care comes first.

[teamsaint]

It is full of emotive argument and value-judgement. I am also curious to know how many of those who are commenting negatively about John Simpson actually saw the programme or are simply jumping on the bandwagon as the latest 'mot du jour' or 'cause celebre'?

I am not sure that seeing the programme is important.
People like John Simpson tend to shape agendas....they way he has been reported is probably as important as what the programme portrayed.

Emotive language and value judgement are important. There are a LOT of very vulnerable people in our society, most of them without John Simpsons influence, money, standing , education or intelligence.
They need protecting not killing(or being allowed to "kill themselves"),and as I said before, the pressure is all in one direction.

[Anna]

It is full of emotive argument and value-judgement. I am also curious to know how many of those who are commenting negatively about John Simpson actually saw the programme or are simply jumping on the bandwagon as the latest 'mot du jour' or 'cause celebre'?

I saw one episode, and I thought, I cannot be an old lady like that, who has no idea, and yes, I thought before I got to that age, probably a bag lady or off her head, I would rather I were dead to be so humiliated and reliant on social services who would say, Oh Bless, She don't even know her own name.

That frightens me. And, I would rather be dead to face that. Edit: I intend to go out in a cloud of glory! Drifting heavenwards on fingers of clouds.

[Lateralthinking1]

I am not sure that seeing the programme is important.
People like John Simpson tend to shape agendas....they way he has been reported is probably as important as what the programme portrayed.

Emotive language and value judgement are important. There are a LOT of very vulnerable people in our society, most of them without John Simpsons influence, money, standing , education or intelligence.
They need protecting not killing(or being allowed to "kill themselves"),and as I said before, the pressure is all in one direction.

I never used to be anti John Simpson. Now I think he is downright irresponsible.

Imagine for a moment that you are his 7 year old son. Daddy is 67. You are aware that this isn't wholly usual and it might lead to various jibes. On the other hand, given the right kind of 67 year old father, you would be well prepared for life because of his not inconsiderable experience. From an early age, you would be seeing your situation as special and a thing of pride.

Some nastier kids might still say "your father could die tomorrow". You will though have been informed by your caring authoritative parents that anyone at any age could die tomorrow or live for quite a long time. They will have encouraged you to look around - see all those people in their 70s, 80s, and 90s. That man walking down the street at 95. If we get to his age, you will then be 35.

But apparently not. This 67 year old Daddy is prancing off to the television studios again. He's got on his authoritative voice of the nation and he's highlighting frailty among the elderly. Worse, he is telling the world about his worries of getting old and how he intends to commit suicide as soon as he decides he is feeble, not that he would expect others to do the same.

You the child learn in this way that Daddy decided to have you at 60 with all the thought that one would normally expect of a 16 year old. Oh, and incidentally, if the going gets tough, he's intending to disappear permanently. Meanwhile all the old dears who are genuinely vulnerable start to seriously wonder whether authoritative John Simpson is right. He is normally right. He has seen a lot of life and nearly always a long way from cosy home. Wouldn't it be terrible to wait until they themselves were in that state.

The BBC should never have broadcast the programme. And why the hell did Simpson have that child in the first place?

[Anna]

IWhy the hell did he have that child in the first place?

Because he loved his wife and wished to reproduce himself. Simples.

[Lateralthinking1]

Because he loved his wife and wished to reproduce himself. Simples.

God help us. According to his Wikipedia entry which I have just reviewed, John Cody Fidler-Simpson CBE has also admitted to being a tax avoider. That seals it and it places all the reports with dead bodies around his feet wholly in context for me.

He claims that when he was a trainee, Prime Minister Harold Wilson punched him in the stomach. Arguably he got off lightly.

[scottycelt]

well I certainly agree about Simpson not being the most dangerous man in Britain.However, he is respected and influential, and even he could be used by those with agendas....slippery slopes, thin ends of wedges etc.

That's the point ... he wouldn't need to be 'used' by others with perfectly valid points about slippery slopes, thin end of wedges, etc ... he, himself, has set that precise agenda, and I cannot for the life of me (no pun intended) understand why any human being should be more 'respected and influential' in these matters than any other ..

My own dad suffered from dementia in later life and it was only then I realised how much I loved him.

I'll leave it at that ... I need say no more.