FM switchover.....Coalition steamroller?

[Frances_iom]

Well you do have an unusual situation down there don't you, pretty much a one off relic!! .

David used to put in almost daily complaints - the probable cause was a 'rusty bolt' on the mast holding the receiver - the cause was the 90Mz seperation between two powerful mobile (?tetra) txs colocated - I can vouch that R3 was listenable only in mono for much of this period.

On a related issue my local txmr on IoM R3 was badly interferred with by a new highly modulated pop radio station so much so I briefly switched to Freeview tho at time this was from Northern Ireland txmr - there would appear to have been better filters (or mod index turned down) at the pop station as FM returned to normal after a year or so - however not sure how the Island now gets its BBC Radio feeds - freeview(now Island based) and R3 appear to be in sync when I tried - I've no DAB Rx on Island to see what time delay on this is.

[Gordon]

The self limiting property of SFNs is a real one but is also somewhat theoretical in that it takes no account of terrain and site shielding as pointed out by Dave. East Anglia is more open to the risk because it is relatively flat and the radio waves travel further especially of helped by some "lift" due to unusual and occasional propagation conditions. Main [5kW] stations at Talcolneston, Sandy Heath and Belmont [not to mention any Belgian or Dutch stations] will contribute to the N Norfolk region but the latter 2 are well over 74 kM away and so will interfere classically at low level and this can be planned for. Nor does it take account of mitigating measures [see that BBC submission to OfCom mentioned above] that can deal with some of the problems eg time delay adjustment and antenna radiation pattern control. 74kM is a long way for 200 MHz to travel well anyway; it isn't that good at 100 MHz come to that. In the end of course it only has to match FM.

The result at a given receiver will also depend on how well its front end OFDM demod is designed. During tests [some published in the OfCom publication of APril last year, referred to earlier] a significant number of those tested were poor and one or two dire requiring over 25dB more field signal strength than the best. Some of the worst were also well known household brands and these poor receivers are contributing to the bad name that DAB has been given in the past.

One big technical issue in DAB switchover is what is the realistic DAB field strength required for FM equivalence? The "graceful" failure of FM makes it hard to define what "failure" [ie service area edge] means. The latest DAB plans [April 2012] are remarkably robust and conservative. OfCom uses field strengths to define sevice areas but this takes little acount of consumer experiences ie who is listening on what. FM was planned for reception using external aerials at 10 metres not portables and when stereo came the problem got considerably worse. So, is the "standard listener" a HiFi stereo fan or someone listening half heartedly in a noisy kitchen to a mono portable with a telescopic aerial leaning against the ground plane of the body of the fridge? If you look at the FM planning annexe of the OfCom consultation of 2011 it is not very good with its detailed study of performance.

[Gordon]

Fine research - many thanks.

Do we sense that the govt are getting very cold feet about the whole gruesome business? Could the BBC tell them privately that this isn't a goer?

The govt aren't but I have more than a suspicion that the BBC are getting tired of it.

[johncorrigan]

The govt aren't but I have more than a suspicion that the BBC are getting tired of it.

The Media Show on R4 was about the DAB switchover today.....there was a fair amount of pushing from Steve Hewlett to the beeb digital man about the distinction between Digital and DAB. Looks like there's a slight problem in there for this guy ( sorry, forgot his name) trying to justify his job.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01ljk4t

[teamsaint]

perhaps, one day, there will be a public consensus that the switch to digital radio was worthwhile and generally beneficial for the people who pay for the service.

Perhaps.
Think it will be a long time coming though.

[salymap]

If FM is to disappear within the next few years it should be illegal to issue catalogues such as Argos, stuffed full of FM radios of all kinds and prices, without some sort of warning that they may soon be useless.

Not everyone, especially the elderly, is up to date with what may happen.

[cloughie]

It hasn't. Based on PwC report figures that dreamed up a notional benefit (unquantified or redacted) to consumers of £781 million based on 'choice'.

Which in plain English means? PwC? Does that mean we can have £781m towards new sets and car radios?

[Frances_iom]

If FM is to disappear within the next few years ...

Salymap you are missing the key weasel clause - FM won't disappear it merely gets reallocated to ultralocal lower power stations with the BBC removed to DAB - thus most of bandwidth allocation can be reclaimed - no FM set is useless (assuming you actually want to listen to these stations which will soon follow the USA model of being a franchised bit of a national network) thus no compensation is necessary - you didn't really think that a tory gov has the good of the country at heart did you ? - you'll be thinking next that the Lib-dems are somewhat to the left of the tories.

[salymap]

Salymap you are missing the key weasel clause - FM won't disappear it merely gets reallocated to ultralocal lower power stations with the BBC removed to DAB - thus most of bandwidth allocation can be reclaimed - no FM set is useless (assuming you actually want to listen to these stations which will soon follow the USA model of being a franchised bit of a national network) thus no compensation is necessary - you didn't really think that a tory gov has the good of the country at heart did you ? - you'll be thinking next that the Lib-dems are somewhat to the left of the tories.

I try to avoid threads on politics as there are so many boring twists and turns and I've seen it all before.
If the BBC stations are lost to FM it will be a total loss to me and many others. It probably won't affect we over 80s though, I hope not.

[Ferretfancy]

I try to avoid threads on politics as there are so many boring twists and turns and I've seen it all before.
If the BBC stations are lost to FM it will be a total loss to me and many others. It probably won't affect we over 80s though, I hope not.

salymap,

Go on ! I expect us both to be around for long enough to see the next fiasco introduced, direct brain transmission via implants perhaps ? I wondered what would happen in the digital TV switch over, what about all those viewers in bedsits with indoor aerials? Well. of course them upstairs knew that they wouldn't really complain. I wouldn't mind too much if DAB quality was up there with the best, but it isn't.
Ah well! I expect that like me you still have books you've always meant to read!

[amateur51]

If FM is to disappear within the next few years it should be illegal to issue catalogues such as Argos, stuffed full of FM radios of all kinds and prices, without some sort of warning that they may soon be useless.

Not everyone, especially the elderly, is up to date with what may happen.

I'm hoping they'll keep LW for Test Match Special too - all my radios except the DAB have LW

[Dave2002]

A good FM set, or even a not so good one, can easily last 20 years. We have several which are at least that old, and some are in very good condition. Some of the newer ones aren't doing so well. My FM tuner is probably nearer 30 years old. My DAB tuner also has FM, but being an early DAB set will probably be incompatible with the upgraded DAB eventually, so will also become a candidate for landfill or a museum.

For info for the puzzled, presumably PwC= Price, Waterhouse, Cooper - a firm of accountants.

Lastly, don't only blame the Tories. Much as I dislike a lot of what they do, some of these ideas were also being set up under (New) Labour. It just happens that the Tories are the ones currently responsible for pushing on with them.

[amateur51]

The Media Show on R4 was about the DAB switchover today.....there was a fair amount of pushing from Steve Hewlett to the beeb digital man about the distinction between Digital and DAB. Looks like there's a slight problem in there for this guy ( sorry, forgot his name) trying to justify his job.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01ljk4t

Agreed johncorrigan - Steve Hewlett was on top form and the BBC guy was ... hopeless. Well worth a listen but very irritating - he's a plonker but he's probably going to win in the long run.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

the airwaves industries are no less corrupt in practices intents and lobbying than banking pharma finance etc and possibly just as active in subbing the tories ...

it just amazes me that with so many fine and honed intellects at the treasury they still believe that £ is always better as a primary value for society than anything else .... and succumb to dodgy deals and lies with a clear conscience ... [if not actually demand such deals]

[amateur51]

The govt aren't but I have more than a suspicion that the BBC are getting tired of it.

Triffic news, Gordon - that's cheered me up on this bright, sunny morn