An Overcrowded Island? - The Great Myth of Urban Britain

[teamsaint]

I think this is one of the key questions - what sort of housing should be built? A huge amount of the housing being built at the moment is land-greedy - detached or semi-detached two storey houses surrounded with a tiny garden (because, although people say they want a garden they don't actually want to do any gardening) on green-field sites, consuming what in many cases is prime agricultural land. Instead it would be useful to look at what was the standard housing type in the bigger Scottish cities until the 20th century - the tenement. In Glasgow that typically gave a group of 8 flats (two to a floor) around a comunal stair, with a communal back green. This gave a high density of population, and coupled with a large number of public parks, safe places for children to play and ample opportunity for people to enjoy the open air & green spaces. The density of the city meant that people were (& still are) in easy reach of shops, schools, & work, unlike the new developments that are dependent on car ownership.

I think you make excellent points. If we are to use space as well as possible,its really vital to provide the kind of housing that people want. this means , amongst other things, good quality leisure facilities close to hand, good transport links, decent parking (like it or not) a pleasant environment, schools that people want their kids to go to etc.
I suspect that in many cases young families default to the burbs because the city alternative is so unappealing, not because they really want to be in some desperate cul de sac miles from anything interesting .
At the moment, the cheaper end of city development seems designed to provide an endless supply of bland property for landlords to rent at sky high prices to people who have little alternative.

[charles t]

The bit of tarmac you happen to live on is hardly the point. Britain is massively overcrowded because it cannot feed its population by growing food on its own land. To sustain a large population, you need huge areas of open land.

Simple mathematics.

Here in the States, read about this farmer who is exporting one-out-of-four rows of his soybeans to China.

I'm sure there must be a point to my posting/musing relative to Britain...perhaps there is a Muse on de premises?

[Calling: Calum da Jazbo]...

[ahinton]

As in "Dordogne twinned with Borsetshire"

I should b*o*dy well hope not - I mean think not! Just the prospect of hearing "that tune" might be enough to make me want to leave! Anyway, what makes you write that? Have you ever been there?

[MrGongGong]

I should b*o*dy well hope not - I mean think not! Just the prospect of hearing "that tune" might be enough to make me want to leave! Anyway, what makes you write that? Have you ever been there?

Yes

We have avoided Dordogneshire several times ......... I don't want to spend my holiday surrounded by "Ruperts" and their annoying over confident children

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Endless discussion of how to address the symptoms, without any real desire to address the cause - i.e. overpopulation.

So we build more homes to house those who need them. Fair enough. That takes up valuable agricultural land.
As the population increases, so does fuel consumption, so we build nuclear power stations, but people don't want to live near them (thugh I've always thought it would be a solution for the disused one at Battersea )
Sea levels rise as a result of climate change, reducing the land mass, concentrating the population still further and eating into more farmland.
We import more food from developing countries as their people continue to be undernourished.

[MrGongGong]

Endless discussion of how to address the symptoms, without any real desire to address the cause - i.e. overpopulation.

So we build more homes to house those who need them. Fair enough. That takes up valuable agricultural land.
As the population increases, so does fuel consumption, so we build nuclear power stations, but people don't want to live near them (thugh I've always thought it would be a solution for the disused one at Battersea )
Sea levels rise as a result of climate change, reducing the land mass, concentrating the population still further and eating into more farmland.
We import more food from developing countries as their people continue to be undernourished.

I live in a county that is almost all classified as "agricultural land"
I don't think that we are short of it
I don't think we are not self sufficient in food because we are short of land but rather that we choose (which is the thing that our culture says is always a good thing ) not to be ..........

I didn't realise Battersea was an old nuclear power station

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I live in a county that is almost all classified as "agricultural land"
I don't think that we are short of it
I don't think we are not self sufficient in food because we are short of land but rather that we choose (which is the thing that our culture says is always a good thing ) not to be ..........

Perhaps you would sit down and work out the average number of hectares required to feed a single UK person, multiply it by 61,000,000 and divide that by the number of hectares of decent agricultural land. At present, it might jus about be possible to feed 61,000,000 vegans, but as meat production is vastly more land hungry, we underproduce vastly.

I didn't realise Battersea was an old nuclear power station

I was recommending it as a sight for a new one - nice and close to the Houses of Parliament.

[teamsaint]

Endless discussion of how to address the symptoms, without any real desire to address the cause - i.e. overpopulation.

So we build more homes to house those who need them. Fair enough. That takes up valuable agricultural land.
As the population increases, so does fuel consumption, so we build nuclear power stations, but people don't want to live near them (thugh I've always thought it would be a solution for the disused one at Battersea )
Sea levels rise as a result of climate change, reducing the land mass, concentrating the population still further and eating into more farmland.
We import more food from developing countries as their people continue to be undernourished.

According any reputbale figures that I have seen, there are thought to be enough resources in the world to adequately serve the needs of 9 billion people.
The overpopulation question seems to me ALWAYS to be driven by those at the top, who want fewer poor people consuming the resources that rightly belong to rich people.
There are serious questions that need addressing about population size, distribution and lifestyle, without doubt.
But when I see the wealthy , powerful elites giving up their share of resources THEN is the time for the rest to follow their lead. They set the agenda on everything else.

In the meantime, a serious look at the food we consume, type, amount, etc would indeed be useful.

[Flosshilde]

I happen to know Ravenscar and I would say that the area has been managed well. The remains of the industry there add to its ambience. Ditto the remains of the tin mines in Cornwall. In other words, in many such areas, I like where we are now.

Yes, sometimes the remains of human activity can enhance a landscape. People think the remains of a medieval castle or monastery are picturesque, but don't appreciate that the remains of industry can be equally pituresque.

On the second, Solva isn't a house - big historical buildings matter to me less although there are many which have an interesting history, eg Chartwell - but rather a coastal/river inlet spot with surrounding land which itself once had a woollen mill.

Sorry - I jumped to the assumption that you were talking about a house. The gift of a landscape usually has a different motive. I would still recommend Nigel Nicholson's book, though

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

There are serious questions that need addressing about population size, distribution and lifestyle, without doubt.
But when I see the wealthy , powerful elites giving up their share of resources THEN is the time for the rest to follow their lead. They set the agenda on everything else.

If we wait for that greedy, selfish mob, nothing will happen. The richer countries and people will always be the last to suffer.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I happen to know Ravenscar and I would say that the area has been managed well. The remains of the industry there add to its ambience.

The reality is that nature has reclaimed it. To appreciate the industrial remains, it has to be pointed out to you.

[MrGongGong]

Perhaps you would sit down and work out the average number of hectares required to feed a single UK person, multiply it by 61,000,000 and divide that by the number of hectares of decent agricultural land. At present, it might jus about be possible to feed 61,000,000 vegans, but as meat production is vastly more land hungry, we underproduce vastly.


I was recommending it as a sight for a new one - nice and close to the Houses of Parliament.

Depends on what you eat I guess
how do they manage in Indonesia ?
Given the nature of our society I don't necessarily think that not growing enough food is a measure of whether we are "overcrowded" or not
I do think we have a responsibility not to have too many children
but given that large families are seen as a measure of success then theres not much we can do about that !
What is disturbing is that many who campaign about "overcrowding" (like "migration watch") are a whisker away from some very nasty beliefs indeed.......

[subcontrabass]

I didn't realise Battersea was an old nuclear power station

I was recommending it as a sight for a new one - nice and close to the Houses of Parliament.

And it was a radioactivity "hotspot" from the radiation from the coal stored there.

[ahinton]

Yes

We have avoided Dordogneshire several times ......... I don't want to spend my holiday surrounded by "Ruperts" and their annoying over confident children

Not only is it not like that anywhere that I' ve been in the Charente, it's not like it all over Dordogne either, so I do think that you're doing the latter quite a disfavour and it also seems that you're not so familiar with the former, if you'll pardon my saying so...

[amateur51]

Depends on what you eat I guess
how do they manage in Indonesia ?
Given the nature of our society I don't necessarily think that not growing enough food is a measure of whether we are "overcrowded" or not
I do think we have a responsibility not to have too many children
but given that large families are seen as a measure of success then theres not much we can do about that !
What is disturbing is that many who campaign about "overcrowding" (like "migration watch") are a whisker away from some very nasty beliefs indeed.......

Did anyone ever find out who funds Migration Watch?

Good stuff again MrGG