I wouldn't bank on it

[ahinton]

The whole post is (isn't it?) the heaviest of irony - the reductio ad absurdum of where we might be heading.

Somewhat rusty irony, I fear - and not of "where we might be heading" because we've already been there and supporting it for quite some time; we're just getting deeper and deeper into it. OK, banks' retail customers do not directly interface with those sectors of investment banking wherein such activities have been and are being carried out, but there can nevertheless be no doubt that giving their custom to said banks helps to support those banks in such activities just as paying taxes to a government can help it to sponsor illegal wars against coutries that have neither invaded nor otherwise declared war on the country that it's been elected to govern.

[Lateralthinking1]

The whole post is (isn't it?) the heaviest of irony - the reductio ad absurdum of where we might be heading.

I hope so Jean - I didn't think JS was generally of those views.

ahinton - The banks are perceived as the trade unions were in the 1970s. The brand banking will never recover in public sentiment, even if it survives in a way that works in the minds of bankers. I suspect that the word "bank" itself will be consigned to history within five years. Currently it's toxic.

[ahinton]

I hope so Jean - I didn't think JS was generally of those views.

ahinton - The banks are perceived as the trade unions were in the 1970s. The brand banking will never recover in public sentiment, even if it survives in a way that works for it, at least in the minds of bankers.

That's probably true, at least in terms of public perception, but what's to be done about it? When trade union power was drastically reduced during Thatcher's régime, the economy of Britain didn't actaully fall apart irreparably, whereas if the banks are successfully and sufficiently thrashed for the kinds of activity that we're discussing here and they go under as a consequence, who or what will take them over and how? We already have some idea as to just how much costly inconvenience can be brought about when a mere computer glitch wreaks temporary (we hope!) havoc within the RBS banking group so, given that the banks are, as they've been described, the plumbing of the economy, what will happen if they're ravaged by regulators to the point at which they'll be unable to recover?

[Lateralthinking1]

That's probably true, at least in terms of public perception, but what's to be done about it? When trade union power was drastically reduced during Thatcher's régime, the economy of Britain didn't actaully fall apart irreparably, whereas if the banks are successfully and sufficiently thrashed for the kinds of activity that we're discussing here and they go under as a consequence, who or what will take them over and how? We already have some idea as to just how much costly inconvenience can be brought about when a mere computer glitch wreaks temporary (we hope!) havoc within the RBS banking group so, given that the banks are, as they've been described, the plumbing of the economy, what will happen if they're ravaged by regulators to the point at which they'll be unable to recover?

And it is worldwide of course. I suggest they get back to basics. They need to have a very public bonfire of the bad and be transparent with it.

Ditch computers talking to computers, have friendly uncles and aunts at the interface, destroy the fanciful notion that anyone at the top is worth what it is said, help desks to be staffed by people in the same countries as customers, a proper division of wings doing different things, get Governments to firm up on underwriting guarantees to customers with better terms for small businesses, absolutely no bail outs, clear statements that they are working inside democratic systems and subservient to those.

That would be something of a start.

[ahinton]

And it is worldwide of course. I suggest they get back to basics. They need to have a very public bonfire of the bad and be transparent with it.

Ditch computers talking to computers, have friendly uncles and aunts at the interface, destroy the fanciful notion that anyone at the top is worth what it is said, help desks to be staffed by people in the same countries as customers, a proper division of wings doing different things, get Governments to firm up on underwriting guarantees to customers with better terms for small businesses, absolutely no bail outs, clear statements that they are working inside democratic systems and subservient to those.

That would be something of a start.

It would be everything of a non-starter, since it would be impossible of achievement and, even if it were feasible, the first and perhaps most significant thing that it would likely achieve is to give each and every member of bank staff equal opportunities to create his/her own greasy pole up which to climb to the point at which more of the same could and would re-occur; as someone once said, "if power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely, all that a level playing field will ever do to discourage either is inject the need for a greater degree of patience in those who'll remain determined seize them".

[ahinton]

No Longer Shine you crazy crazy Diamond....

I rather fear that it'll be much more a case of Diamonds are Forever; my word is my Eurozone Bond on that...

[eighthobstruction]

Shove off you crazy Diamond....

[amateur51]

That's probably true, at least in terms of public perception, but what's to be done about it? When trade union power was drastically reduced during Thatcher's régime, the economy of Britain didn't actaully fall apart irreparably,

Oh so it's Mrs Thatcher whom we have to thank for Britain's thriving manufacturing sector is it

[Lateralthinking1]

It would be everything of a non-starter, since it would be impossible of achievement and, even if it were feasible, the first and perhaps most significant thing that it would likely achieve is to give each and every member of bank staff equal opportunities to create his/her own greasy pole up which to climb to the point at which more of the same could and would re-occur; as someone once said, "if power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely, all that a level playing field will ever do to discourage either is inject the need for a greater degree of patience in those who'll remain determined seize them".

The think the unthinkable, embrace change, he who dares wins, liberalism uses old style conservatism as its defence. The sector is looking as lumpen in its adherence to now age old norms as the Soviet Union was in the Brezhnev years.

It's so-called modernism is a clapped out Ford Anglia. No, let's be fair. It's a late 1970s Ital when what we need is a Hispano Suiza.

[ahinton]

Oh so it's Mrs Thatcher whom we have to thank for Britain's thriving manufacturing sector is it

Did I say so? No! All that I did seek to imply was that the reduction of trade union power in Britain in the 80s did not actually bring the economy of Britain to its knees whereas the routing of the banks would inevitably do just that, not least because it would impose a stranglehold on the movement of funds for any purpose, including imports/exports, payment and rebate of taxes, payment of state benefits and salaries, corporate and personal purchases, which would hardly have been the outcome even had Thatcher successfully contrived to outlaw trade unions in Britain altogether (which, most fortunately, she did not do).

[ahinton]

The think the unthinkable, embrace change, he who dares wins, liberalism uses old style conservatism as its defence. The sector is looking as lumpen in its adherence to now age old norms as the Soviet Union was in the Brezhnev years.

It's so-called modernism is a clapped out Ford Anglia. No, let's be fair. It's a late 1970s Ital when what we need is a Hispano Suiza.

So how, then, would you seek to go about implementing your suggestions, what success might you reasonably hope to anticipate from your efforts to do so and, most importantly of all, how do you suppose - regardless of the extent of their immediate successes - their outcome could guarantee no possibility of return to the current situation or something broadly similar and equally grave?

[amateur51]

Did I say so? No!

Well that's what I inferred, otherwise I should not have posted as I did

I've re-read it and I don't think that I was wrong, (oh no!)

[Lateralthinking1]

So how, then, would you seek to go about implementing your suggestions, what success might you reasonably hope to anticipate from your efforts to do so and, most importantly of all, how do you suppose - regardless of the extent of their immediate successes - their outcome could guarantee no possibility of return to the current situation or something broadly similar and equally grave?

But really that isn't the voice of go-ahead private enterprise speaking is it?

There are millions of kids growing up who won't need stabilisers on their bikes, never having had the stupidity to ride over a cliff themselves. One thing they might be offered is some thorough history.

Clearly those who had the supernatural confidence of gods are now utterly useless at the coal face.

Actually, the training of a new generation in completely different, somewhat more conventional, norms should concentrate the tired old heads enormously. They will hate the competition and some might even come down to earth.

Suddenly we could see miraculous change.

[ahinton]

Well that's what I inferred, otherwise I should not have posted as I did

I've re-read it and I don't think that I was wrong, (oh no!)

I know that you inferred it and have no doubt that you've re-read it but the facts are nevertheless clear and, I think, beyond argument in that reducing trade union power did not impose a total stranglehold on the eonomy of 80s Britain whereas regulating the banks out of existence as punishment for their ill deeds would do just that in 10s Britain; with which bit of that do you disagree and on what grounds? Just curious - that's all...

[eighthobstruction]

>>>>
Clearly those who had the supernatural confidence of gods are now utterly useless at the coal face. <<<<,Lat

Possibly a good plot for a contemporary take on 'the Ring'....