Two Maulings in One Day - Paxman AND Channel 4

[amateur51]

Humphrys - 68; Paxman - 62. Given the BBC's notorious ageism, why are they still being employed? Oh, 'ang on. No. scrub that - we know the answer, don't we ?

If you think the main purpose of a political interview is to 'attack' a politician, give them a hard time, if necessary ridicule and humiliate them, Paxman does well. If you think it's to succeed in drawing out information from them, rather than cause them to stonewall the questions (so that people can draw whatever conclusions fit with their existing opinions), then Paxman is NBG. Perhaps he just asks the wrong questions?

But it still doesn't answer the question: how are politicians getting younger? - it's not covered by the General Theory of Relativity

[french frank]

But it still doesn't answer the question: how are politicians getting younger? - it's not covered by the General Theory of Relativity

Everyone's getting younger, aren't they? I mean, younger in what they achieve. Including in politics.

And yes, I know about William Pitt the Younger. Prime Minister at 24. But people died younger in those days too so they had to get a move on. Jeremy Paxman would have been quite a bit younger in 1783.

In any case, it may not answer the question you asked, but it does raise another one which I think is allowable under the rules

[amateur51]

Everyone's getting younger, aren't they? I mean, younger in what they achieve. Including in politics.

And yes, I know about William Pitt the Younger. Prime Minister at 24. But people died younger in those days too so they had to get a move on. Jeremy Paxman would have been quite a bit younger in 1783.

In any case, it may not answer the question you asked, but it does raise another one which I think is allowable under the rules

[ahinton]

Will Frenchie forgive the following momentary digression and guarantee that I won't be banned from this forum for suggesting the merger of two threads that I keep seeing listed on the same page of Platform 3 into
Two Maulings in One Day - DVOŘÁK AND TCHAIKOVSKY SYMPHONIES?

Someone's nicked me coat...

[vinteuil]

Everyone's getting younger, aren't they? I mean, younger in what they achieve. Including in politics.
And yes, I know about William Pitt the Younger. Prime Minister at 24. But people died younger in those days too so they had to get a move on

... but did people "die younger in those days"?

The averages for life expectancy were low, admittedly - but that's because so many died as babies, toddlers, infants. If you managed to survive childhood infections and the like, you could actually look forward to a ripe old age -

"The selfishness of the eighteenth century was a communal selfishness. Each individual was expected to practise, and did in fact practise to a consummate degree, those difficult arts which make the wheels of human intercourse run smoothly - the arts of tact and temper, of frankness and sympathy, of delicate compliment and exquisite self-abnegation - with the result that a condition of living was produced which, in all its superficial and obvious qualities, was one of unparalleled amenity. Indeed, those persons who were privileged to enjoy it showed their appreciation of it in an unequivocal way - by the tenacity with which they clung to the scene of such delights and graces. They refused to grow old; they almost refused to die. Time himself seems to have joined their circle, to have been infected with their politeness, and to have absolved them, to the furthest possible point, from the operation of his laws. Voltaire, d'Argental, Moncrif, Hénault, Madame d'Egmont, Madame du Deffand herself - all were born within a few years of each other, and all lived to be well over eighty, with the full zest of their activities unimpaired. Pont-de-Veyle, it is true, died young - at the age of seventy-seven. Another contemporary, Richelieu, who was famous for his adventures while Louis XIV was still on the throne, lived till within a year of the opening of the States-General. More typical still of this singular and fortunate generation was Fontenelle, who, one morning in his hundredth year, quietly observed that he felt a difficulty in existing, and forthwith, even more quietly, ceased to do so."

Lytton Strachey - 'Madame du Deffand', in Books and Characters

[Boilk]

But it still doesn't answer the question: how are politicians getting younger? - it's not covered by the General Theory of Relativity

When you've got young people at the top (Cameron, Osborne, Clegg, et al) they're going to hire peer group people as much as possible. Underneath it all, we're still animals hardwired with the same heriarchical group instincts of our ancestors. The elders have lead tribes and called the shots for millenia, so we can't help but look up to them, i.e. feel somewhat inferior.

Can you see this lot wanting to look up to anyone? Elders with experience would represent a threat to self-confidence, the illusion of authority and, of course, huge egos.

[ahinton]

When you've got young people at the top (Cameron, Osborne, Clegg, et al) they're going to hire peer group people as much as possible. Underneath it all, we're still animals hardwired with the same heriarchical group instincts of our ancestors. The elders have lead tribes and called the shots for millenia, so we can't help but look up to them, i.e. feel somewhat inferior.

Can you see this lot wanting to look up to anyone? Elders with experience would represent a threat to self-confidence, the illusion of authority and, of course, huge egos.

"Heriarchical"?

"Millenia"?

Oh - and do spare us "Elders with experience", please, otherwise you might risk attracting the endorsement of those who blame overpaid superstar conductors for all too many of contemporary society's financial ills...

[Lateralthinking1]

Can you see this lot wanting to look up to anyone? Elders with experience would represent a threat to self-confidence, the illusion of authority and, of course, huge egos.

Fortunately as Blair and Brown found out, long-term dictatorship is still a failed concept here.

I am able to bring some excellent news for all disgruntled Conservative voters. It is also good news for those, like me, who cannot bear to have Conservatives in Government but could just about cope if they exhibited some decency, were hard working and competent, and had at least some sort of normal, recognisable background.

In seven years time, she will be 50. Of 650 MPs assessed for cheating on expenses, 1 being the worst and 650 being the best, she ranked 599. She is as tough as old boots but also has a compassionate side and she is currently one of the best Secretaries of State. In fact, she might be the only one who has anything about them.

Justine Greening. If Labour fails in 2015, she should be the Chancellor by 2019 and if Dave is sadly run over by a bus they have a ready made leader. Unfortunately they will probably look a gift horse in the mouth and choose a mad buffoon with dodgy hair.

[aeolium]

The averages for life expectancy were low, admittedly - but that's because so many died as babies, toddlers, infants. If you managed to survive childhood infections and the like, you could actually look forward to a ripe old age -

"The selfishness of the eighteenth century was a communal selfishness. Each individual was expected to practise, and did in fact practise to a consummate degree, those difficult arts which make the wheels of human intercourse run smoothly - the arts of tact and temper, of frankness and sympathy, of delicate compliment and exquisite self-abnegation - with the result that a condition of living was produced which, in all its superficial and obvious qualities, was one of unparalleled amenity. Indeed, those persons who were privileged to enjoy it showed their appreciation of it in an unequivocal way - by the tenacity with which they clung to the scene of such delights and graces."

The key words there are 'those persons who were privileged to enjoy it'. For the aristocracy or wealthy merchant class in the C18 there was every prospect of living into old age, but for the mass of the population in Europe life was pretty tough even if you survived into adulthood. Diet was poor, sanitation was basic especially in the cities, medical knowledge was rudimentary and people were prey to all kinds of diseases which later advancements in public health have made far less dangerous. And for the slave populations of European colonial powers which helped to support the exquisite life style of the wealthy life was far worse still - no great expectancy of a ripe old age for them. For the still predominantly rural workforce in C18 Europe, there was the ever-present risk of harvest failure or sickness with no safety net. And behind the refinements of courts and country houses stood a legal system defending the interests of the propertied class, with around 200 capital offences in the English 'Bloody Code'.

So I'm not greatly impressed with the C18 aristocrats who enjoyed their long lives of 'unparalleled amenity' and tenaciously 'clung to the scene of such delights and graces'. They did so with a carelessness for the welfare of the many who made such lives possible.

[ahinton]

Of 650 MPs assessed for cheating on expenses, 1 being the worst and 650 being the best

Would you mind doing me (and possibly others as well) a favour by directing me to the source of that information? - and how recent is it? I'd quite like to have a look at it. Thanks in advance.

[Lateralthinking1]

Would you mind doing me (and possibly others as well) a favour by directing me to the source of that information? - and how recent is it? I'd quite like to have a look at it. Thanks in advance.

Well, I went to Wikipedia but I have in my possession a hard copy of the 64-page supplement that was produced by the Daily Telegraph entitled 'The Complete Expenses File'. It is here on my desk now and I will see if there are some key points to mention.

However, if there is anything specific you would like to know, please ask. All the detail is here and I am not letting it go for as long as I remain alive.

[ahinton]

Well, I went to Wikipedia but I have in my possession a hard copy of the 64-page supplement that was produced by the Daily Telegraph entitled 'The Complete Expenses File'. It is here on my desk now and I will see if there are some key points to mention.

However, if there is anything specific you would like to know, please ask. All the detail is here and I am not letting it go for as long as I remain alive.

What's its date?

[Lateralthinking1]

What's its date?

It represents the position as it was at 8am on Tuesday 23 June 2009 and has a detailed account of every MP.

[ahinton]

It represents the position as it was at 8am on Tuesday 23 June 2009 and has a detailed account of every MP.

Ah - well, not to worry, then, as one of the pieces of data that I'd liked to have checked is where my own MP stands in such a table, but that will not be possible from your source as he was not elected until the last General Election. I do know that he was once falsely accused of claiming a small expense of some £1,200 or so for his constituency office and successfully challenged it as an expense which had been properly declared and approved.

[Lateralthinking1]

Ah - well, not to worry, then, as one of the pieces of data that I'd liked to have checked is where my own MP stands in such a table, but that will not be possible from your source as he was not elected until the last General Election. I do know that he was once falsely accused of claiming a small expense of some £1,200 or so for his constituency office and successfully challenged it as an expense which had been properly declared and approved.

Well if you are in the heart of Hereford or to the South, he's ex Barclays

Previously, the man Keetch had blinds and a sofa and some interesting mortgage shenanigans but there were a lot worse.

I was going to advise you to move to Wyre Forest. The Independent there was one of the few saints but, while being so, he was unceremoniously kicked out which says a lot about values among voters.