Simon Bolivar Orchestra live at Stirling - BBC4

[Northender]

My 'Venezuela' jacket, caught when hurled from the stage at the end of one of their concerts we attended, is visible on the hall stand as I write!

Some people - not that I'm among them, of course - might describe that sort of behaviour as caracas.

[mangerton]

I wasn't aware that council 'estates' even existed in Scotland but maybe I've been away too long!

Certainly I've never associated a place like Stirling with any major degree of deprivation, but I suppose everything is relative when considering such things.

Enough cynicism! Not for the first time I tend to disagree with Flossie .. .. there are surely plenty of other activities that have been tried to 'bond' young communities and the idea of an orchestra playing classical music has surely got to be the most welcome and surprising yet ... and it does 'educate' the participants (after all, we all had to learn!) about the existence of great music that they may well wish to explore further in later life. If the project has worked in other places abroad it's well worth a try here.

I'll be foregoing the boring footie tonight to watch the concert ... can't wait!

Estates are more commonly known as "schemes" here scotty, and the inhabitants are often pejoratively known as "schemies". I'm sure that rings a bell.

Different countries, different languages. Take aways or carry outs. Pasties or pies.

I'm looking forward to watching this.

[Ariosto]

I know. It often feels like R3 members are more interested in 50 year old CDs & long dead musicians than the many wonderful present day artists we can hear live on R3 & in the concert hall..

I was not going to post on this forum at least for a while but I think I should say a couple of things about tonight's concert.

I think it is a bit stupid of the BBC "Today" programme this morning to say that they have an item about one of the great orchestras of the world. Then we find later that this is about the S B Youth Orchestra in a concert tonight.

In my opinion neither the SBY orchestra or the conductor Dudamel can claim to be "great." This is a subjective term anyway.

But I am not speaking against this youth orchestra, it's conductor, or the ideas that they or it represents. I wish them well, and I am certainly not against their success or the idea that the world can certainly be improved by such ventures.

We just have to be more circumspect when we describe the orchestra.

It is also a mistake in my opinion to write off "50 year old CD's and long dead musicians" in favour of the muscians of the present day when there is a lot still to learn from the past, and some might even say that there is also a lot we have lost in the meantime.

I did listen for a few minutes to the programme but in the end for the sake of sanity I switched off.

[MrGongGong]

I'm looking forward to watching this.

I'm looking forward to all those who are inspired by young people making music maybe trying to have a little influence on the shameful way that this government is cutting music education funding by 40% so that access to instrumental , vocal and creative music making becomes once again confined to the margins

hummmmmmmm but i'm not holding my breath because when it comes down to it most "music lovers" don't give a toss about it
sad but true i'm afraid ................

and of course if we do get Gove's magic return to "O levels" that means NO practical music at all ..................

[Osborn]

I completely agree with your #18 (but don't much like the last line)

[JFLL]

Estates are more commonly known as "schemes" here scotty, and the inhabitants are often pejoratively known as "schemies". I'm sure that rings a bell.

Different countries, different languages. Take aways or carry outs. Pasties or pies.

.

And same country, different dialects. In the Black Country where I was brought up, the local council estate was always called 'the scheme', as though it was still in the planning stage. Another, sandwiched between railway embankments had the poetic name 'the Lost City'.

[Nick Armstrong]

Some people - not that I'm among them, of course - might describe that sort of behaviour as caracas.

... what - chucking them, catching one, or still having it on the hall stand a couple of years later?

Anyway, just for you: the Festival Hall concerts on Sat 23 & Tues 26 June will be streamed live by The Guardian

Pathetically, I had no idea they were in residence again!! So many many thanks for this. I must keep up to date better - I thought my laxity extended mainly to the Barbican (Haitink - Bruckner missed ) but I see it's worse... I must have dropped off the RFH / International mailing list Need to sort that out.

Thanks again Ossie

[Flosshilde]

Enough cynicism! Not for the first time I tend to disagree with Flossie .. .. there are surely plenty of other activities that have been tried to 'bond' young communities and the idea of an orchestra playing classical music has surely got to be the most welcome and surprising yet ... and it does 'educate' the participants (after all, we all had to learn!) about the existence of great music that they may well wish to explore further in later life. If the project has worked in other places abroad it's well worth a try here.

I'm not quite sure what you are disagreeing with in the comments above. I didn't say that the Big Noise wouldn't educate the participants about great music - just that that's not its principal aim, which is to use the discipline of learning to play an instrument & play together in an orchestra to develop 'discipline' (in its more positive meaning), structure & community feeling in the lives of the children involved (about a sixth of the population of the estate or scheme). The evidence of how it has worked in Raploch won't be apparent for a good many years, but the evidence from Venezuela is that it does work.

MrGG - I've no idea why the government or Mr Gove has seen fit to include it as a model for music education in the future - doing so is mis-representing it. I would think that those involved in El Sistema & in the Big Noise are more reliable guides to its purpose & aims than someone who has shown himself to be a numpty as far as education policies are concerned.

Ariosto - I think you will find that the Simon Bolivar Orchestra no longer calls itself a 'youth' orchestra. It's clear from your comments that simply changing your name doesn't change your sour disposition.

Anyway, I'm sure that the audience in Stirling had a great time, despite the weather

[MrGongGong]

MrGG - I've no idea why the government or Mr Gove has seen fit to include it as a model for music education in the future - doing so is mis-representing it. I would think that those involved in El Sistema & in the Big Noise are more reliable guides to its purpose & aims than someone who has shown himself to be a numpty as far as education policies are concerned.
.

Well , if you read Darren Henley's (YES that one !) review of music education and the following "National Plan" it's blatantly obvious why this is held up as a model which should be adopted everywhere (neatly avoiding the fact that it's massively expensive and completely off the scale of the funds available )
Part of the problem is NOT that young people who take part are having a profound musical experience (no shit Sherlock !) but that this project is somehow seen as the "saviour" of young people through CLASSICAL (and make no mistake because its only CLASSICAL music that will work ) music headed up by a famous "cellist" who is largely ignorant of music education in the UK.
But no one seems really that bothered preferring the puff to something with real substance.

[Ariosto]

Ariosto - I think you will find that the Simon Bolivar Orchestra no longer calls itself a 'youth' orchestra.

That just makes it even worse. They sound like a "youth orchestra" and yet claim to be a professional orchestra.

It's clear from your comments that simply changing your name doesn't change your sour disposition.

Goodbye. Enjoy your little world.

[Flosshilde]

Well, such totally stupid and ignorant comments only give away your lack of any intelligence.

Which comments in particular?

By the way, it was probably you that reported me the other day, as I know it was someone who was around in the old BBC messageboards days.

It is this sort of cretinous rubbish from people like you that cause people leave these forums in disgust at such total ignorance when they read such moronic statements.

I think you will find that quite a few people here were also on the BBC board. So there's a fairly wide choice for possible reporters,or perhaps the guilty party/ies took their lead from 'Murder on the Orient Express'.

[johncorrigan]

In my opinion, Richard Holloway is one of the truly great Britons - a wonderful man of great courage, spirit and vision to bring such a project to Raploch.

[Northender]

That just makes it even worse. They sound like a "youth orchestra" and yet claim to be a professional orchestra.


Well, such totally stupid and ignorant comments only give away your lack of any intelligence.

By the way, it was probably you that reported me the other day, as I know it was someone who was around in the old BBC messageboards days.

It is this sort of cretinous rubbish from people like you that cause people leave these forums in disgust at such total ignorance when they read such moronic statements.

Oh dear .... and I've only just joined Can I please stay if I don't feel disgusted?

[MrGongGong]

Just so that folk are clear about agendas

If you look at the NPME

the word

Sistema occurs 7 times
the word
Improvisation occurs 1 time

make of that what you will

[french frank]

make of that what you will

What did your own music education start with, MrGG?