Acoustic recording

[ardcarp]

I can't talk techie stuff, but I do like Elgar's spats. #4

[Ferretfancy]

Yes, Nimbus used that technique, but never heard them, supposed to be quite amazing

I'm afraid that they are not very amazing when compared to more recent methods of restoration. The trouble was that Nimbus did not just use a horn gramophone to play the discs and then employ a microphone to copy them. Instead they played the discs in a hall, and placed the microphone at a distance to add extra reverberation, claiming that this was how they would have been experienced originally. This is not re-mastering in any real sense of the term.

[PJPJ]

This transfer recorded the sound coming out of an HMV Royal gramophone, but not in a hall as Nimbus did: the results are interesting, though the pitch is wrong. Some acoustic, some electrical in the collection.

[salymap]

I remember reading that even as recently as the earlyish part of the 20th century Malcolm Sargent recorded RVW's opera Hugh the Drover standing on a ledge above the cast and various people had to step forward or retreat to get the sound balanced. The advances in recording are amazing but do we always get the true picture nowadays, or is it a patchwork quilt?

And thanks to whoever put the wonderful pics of Elgar and Henry Wood on this thread.

[Pabmusic]

I can't talk techie stuff, but I do like Elgar's spats. #4

This picture was taken at Elgar's very first recording session (February 1914 - 22nd, I think). One piece he recorded on that occasion was a new one, Carissima, which must be a good candidate for the first piece by a significant composer to have been given its premiere in a studio.

[umslopogaas]

Gerald Moore gives some entertaining accounts of his experiences accompanying singers in the days of acoustic recording, in 'Am I Too Loud?'

"They [the recording engineers] had great trouble with me because I tried to play softly. Mme Chemet and I were dealing with a Berceuse but Arthur Clark [chief engineer], opening his kennel window, insisted on my playing forte at all time. I protested that it was impossible to bang out the notes of a lullaby; I should wake the baby. The result, in the test played back to us, was that I was unheard. I did not relish this. The piano could not be placed any nearer [to the horn] than it was; already the violinist had hardly enough room for her bowing arm between the trumpet and the piano. In the last reckoning I obeyed official recommendation and clattered my part of the lullaby like a charge of cavalry, to the approval of all."

" ... the recording of duets provided me with the greatest fun. It often developed into a free-for-all between the tenor and bass, or the soprano and baritone protagonists. Each wanted to shine, each wanted to hog the trumpet, and the charging and pushing that went on made me marvel that they had any breath left for singing. Victory usually went to avoirdupois, a welter being no match for a heavyweight. The recording staff and I would exchange delighted winks while these tussles were under way but I had to hide my enjoyment from the singers for each would come to me and whisper, 'What am I to do with this fellow? He doesnt give me a chance.' I was strictly non-partisan and always gave the same advice to each - 'Shove him out of the way.' "

[pmartel]

I LOVE the last posting. NOW in the 21st century, just shove a mike in front of them, or hit 'remove vocal; in audio editing software.

Nellie Melba and Enrico Caruso would be so envious

[pmartel]

This transfer recorded the sound coming out of an HMV Royal gramophone, but not in a hall as Nimbus did: the results are interesting, though the pitch is wrong. Some acoustic, some electrical in the collection.

Many early recordings were NOT true 78 and some were marked as such.

With my Lenco being variable speed, it was quite remarkable the difference, just an rpm or two could make quite a difference

[hmvman]

Many early recordings were NOT true 78 and some were marked as such.

With my Lenco being variable speed, it was quite remarkable the difference, just an rpm or two could make quite a difference

I think deciding on the speed of old discs is one of the modern transfer engineer's biggest dilemmas. 1928 saw the speed standardised at 78rpm. I have some Columbia discs from around that time that are marked 78rpm on one side and 80rpm on the other!

[pmartel]

hmvman, I'm so grateful I kept my Lenco as if I decide to get into 78 restoration it will be really interesting to push my hearing to the limit for pitch and what I know about music in general.

I also found this for those who are interested in the subject of gramophones and acoustic recording;

http://www.phonoland.com/viewforum.php?f=7

Many years back I had a friend in Somerset who I had a chance to meet and had a great time. He had over 3000 78's and his own custom built gramophone using a Lenco as the base and his own pick up and horn. It was nothing short of revaltory

[Flosshilde]

Each wanted to shine, each wanted to hog the trumpet, and the charging and pushing that went on made me marvel that they had any breath left for singing. Victory usually went to avoirdupois, a welter being no match for a heavyweight.

So that's why singers then were so hefty - & I thought it was it helped their singing


On Saturday Classics yesterday James Jolly played this - Siegfried, Forest murmurs, Los Angeles Philharmonic Orchestra, Conducted by Erich LEINSDORF. I don't remember when it was recorded, but he did say that it had been done in a single take. Would it have been an acoustic recording?

[hmvman]

Flosshilde, I think that Leinsdorf recording was made in the 1970s for Sheffield Labs. They were making direct-to-disc masters at that time and so this would've been a single take. Before the the advent of tape recording in the late 1940s, commercial recordings were made onto wax masters that did not allow editing and so each side was a single take. This process applied to both acoustic recording and electrical recording (from 1925).

Pmartel, I also recall my first hearing of a shellac disc played on an acoustic gramophone and being amazed at the sound quality. I now own a few acoustic machines of various vintages. However, for me the greatest revelation was hearing a vocal 78 played on an EMG gramophone with its huge papier appliqué horn. The voice appeared to be just floating in the air. I would dearly love to own such a machine but they need quite a bit of room and good examples are fairly costly to buy these days.

[John Wright]

Turning into a very informative thread!

I mentioned my dance bands podcasts earlier, but maybe of more interest to members here might be the series of 6 podcasts I did a couple of years ago, on Parlour Songs from my 78's, and some of those are acoustic recordings (pre 1925).

So if you'd like to hear the voices of Gervase Elwes, Walter Glynne, Violet Essex, Foster Richardson, Peter Dawson, Elisabeth Schumann and others, with accompaniment, go to

http://www.r2ok.co.uk/parloursongs.htm

Scroll down for playlists and recording details in each podcast.

[Flosshilde]

Thanks, hmvman. I assumed that the Sheffield Labs had re-issued an older recording. JJ did say that it was done in a single take.

[pmartel]

Just thought I'd post this 'Youtube' video of what a 1925 Victor Credenza restored sounds like;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HpQWA4xmLk&feature=relmfu

Personally, I'd take a stereo mic in front of the horn at the right distance and height to get the best sound.

My partner would shudder if we get a house and I start collecting gramophones again