Misunderstood/neglected/ignored conductors

[Hornspieler]

Saw Wyn Morris twice in 1972 - a rather odd Mahler 8 in the Albert Hall with a sort of composite orchestra, and the first perf of the latest Deryck Cooke 10 version with DC in the audience. Sounds as if he could be difficult...

....

I knew Wyn Morris as a student at the RAM, studying under Dr Clarence Raybould. I thought he was very self opinionated and lacking in any talent as either conductor or interpreter. I was amazed in the 1990s to see him advertised in the weekend broadsheets as "The Greatest Interpreter of Mahler of the present day"

All praise to his concert promoter. I'm sure that some people might actually have believed that!

HS

[amateur51]

I knew Wyn Morris as a student at the RAM, studying under Dr Clarence Raybould. I thought he was very self opinionated and lacking in any talent as either conductor or interpreter. I was amazed in the 1990s to see him advertised in the weekend broadsheets as "The Greatest Interpreter of Mahler of the present day"

All praise to his concert promoter. I'm sure that some people might actually have believed that!

HS

From the Independent's obituary of Wyn Morris cited by Richard Tarleton in msg #2

"In 1957 he won the Koussevitsky Memorial Prize at Tanglewood, the Massachusetts summer home of the Boston Symphony Orchestra, and attracted the interest of George Szell, the martinet conductor of the Cleveland Orchestra.

Thus began a three-year apprenticeship under a man known as a formidable orchestral trainer; Morris rehearsed the orchestra for him and conducted the Cleveland Chamber Orchestra and Orpheus Choir. All went well until one day when the Orchestra had had some new recording equipment installed and Szell was being shown how it worked, asking Morris to take a rehearsal while he went up to the studio. Morris rehearsed a Tchaikovsky symphony, at Szell's request, and enjoyed the compliments of the players afterwards, many of them commenting what a refreshing rehearsal it had been. The implicit contrast was obvious to the jealous Szell, listening upstairs through the open microphones, and the next day Morris was out on his ear."

Other past winners of the Koussevitzky prize include Seiji Ozawa (1960) and Michael Tilson Thomas (1969)

[Gordon]

All this talk of Wyn Morris reminds me that he made a number of records for Delyse which was set up by Isabella Wallich a neice of Fred Gaisberg. Decca used to press the LPs but whatever happened to their master tape library?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

For whatever reason the Halle were run-of-the-mill under Weldon one week and superb under Sir John the following week.

Weldon generally did the "Industrial Concerts", which were popular repertoire, in which he excelled.
Sadly, even by musicians' standards he was thought to have something of a drink problem.

[Beef Oven]

I knew Wyn Morris as a student at the RAM, studying under Dr Clarence Raybould. I thought he was very self opinionated and lacking in any talent as either conductor or interpreter. I was amazed in the 1990s to see him advertised in the weekend broadsheets as "The Greatest Interpreter of Mahler of the present day"

All praise to his concert promoter. I'm sure that some people might actually have believed that!

HS

With respect, listening to his recordings might mitigate your surprise.

[cloughie]

With respect, listening to his recordings might mitigate your surprise.

His LSO Beethoven cycle on Pickwick is very good set!

[Richard Tarleton]

All praise to his concert promoter. I'm sure that some people might actually have believed that!

HS

I mused along these lines at the Mahler 8 I attended in the Albert Hall. It was actually my first Mahler 8 - which I think was why I went. I think the orchestra was called the "National Philharmonic" or one of those composite titles, goodness knows who they were. It must have been a marketing disaster - I was standing in the gallery at the top looking down on a sparsely occupied stalls.....

[amateur51]

I mused along these lines at the Mahler 8 I attended in the Albert Hall. It was actually my first Mahler 8 - which I think was why I went. I think the orchestra was called the "National Philharmonic" or one of those composite titles, goodness knows who they were. It must have been a marketing disaster - I was standing in the gallery at the top looking down on a sparsely occupied stalls.....

More bodies on the stage than punters, RT?

[Richard Tarleton]

More bodies on the stage than punters, RT?

More or less....Not long afterwards I went to a much better-organised 8 conducted by David Willcocks, also in the Albert Hall.

[Alison]

Bazza Wordsworth ? Never heard an inspired performance from him.

Give us some examples, Beefy ...

[Beef Oven]

Bazza Wordsworth ? Never heard an inspired performance from him.

Give us some examples, Beefy ...

He did some rather good things on Naxos - Mozart & Haydn spring to mind.

Also, I went to quite a few gigs in the late 80s early 90s where he was conductor and the performances were marvellous.

My point here is that the glamour boys are remembered at the expense of yer Bazzas!

[LeMartinPecheur]

All this talk of Wyn Morris reminds me that he made a number of records for Delyse which was set up by Isabella Wallich a neice of Fred Gaisberg. Decca used to press the LPs but whatever happened to their master tape library?

After Decca had finished with the recordings licensed from Delyse/ Oiseau-Lyre, Isabella Wallisch (sp?) their founder licensed many of them to Pickwick/ IMP Classics who for some reason marked up the CDs as DDD despite their 1960s/70s provenance. As a trading standards officer I successfully prosecuted them for this under the late-lamented Trade Descriptions Act - this was even mentioned in Gramophone!

I've an idea that Pickwick later went bust. Dunno whether the tapes formed any part of their disposable assets or whether the rights reverted to Wallisch or her heirs. I would suspect the latter.

As a collector the recording that I first noticed was the Wyn Morris/ Janet Baker Mahler Wunderhorn songs - and just thought the DDD must be just a random accident. Then I spotted they were all like it - the Caballe Debussy/ Chausson disc and the Morris Klagende Lied were others that figured in my inquiries and are still on my shelves. A colleague in another authority had spotted the same misdescription on the Wyn Morris Bruckner Helgoland/ Wagner Liebesmahl der Apostel CD and drawn it to the company's attention previously - so clearly a very cuwtured sorta bloke yer avridge TSO!

[Petrushka]

I saw Sinopoli conduct the Philharmonia in two Mahler symphonies, the 9th in the RFH in 1983 and a Proms 6th in 1986. Agree absolutely about the Dresden Bruckner 5 and there is an even finer Bruckner 8 with them (coupled with Strauss' Metamorphosen). Live concert recordings of Mahler 4 & 9 exist on the Profil label and are well worth investigating. Certainly an under-rated and neglected talent.

I also saw Louis Fremaux on a few occasions in Birmingham Town Hall and elsewhere but apart from a 1975 Berlioz Damnation of Faust which sticks in the memory alongside the premiere of the Richard Rodney Bennett Violin Concerto (now there's a piece that could do with resurrecting) from the same year, I can't remember much of them.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Also, I went to quite a few gigs in the late 80s early 90s where he was conductor and the performances were marvellous.

Yes; he conducted quite a few of the Brighton Philharmonic concerts in the Dome on Sunday afternoons at that time, too. Functional, respectable, decent ... can't complain, but not in the same league as Morris, Handley, Sinopoli or even Hurst IMO. And not really "misunderstood/neglected/ignored"; he's still quite busy.

... Ted Downes, John Pritchard, Charles Groves, Alexander Gibson or James Loughran on the other hand ...

[Alison]

I could never understand John Drummonds dismissal of Ted Downes. A cd set of his best off air radio recordings would be be a veritable feast!