Misunderstood/neglected/ignored conductors

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  • Beef Oven

    Misunderstood/neglected/ignored conductors

    Down the years I have been mystified about the take on certain conductors.

    Why did Vernon Handley never get that Knighthood he so richly deserved?

    Why does the late, glorious Wyn Morris never get a mention anywhere?

    How does a huge talent such as Barry Wordsworth slip by unnoticed?

    Ondrej Lenard - I have too many marvellous Lenard performances to list!!



    And why did this happen to Sinopoli?

    From the Evening Standard 11th Feb 2004 :-

    ".....Twice in as many years, I have seen a music director run out of town. The first was Giuseppe Sinopoli, who arrived at the Philharmonia Orchestra in 1984, with an 80-disc Deutsche Grammophon contract and a winning smile. Intelligent and affable (he held a medical doctorate and medals in archaeology), Sinopoli was a capable opera conductor who had yet to prove himself in the unsparing light of concert sound.



    The cerebral Italian spent rehearsals waffling on about the neuroses of Mahler and Schumann when all the band wanted to know was whether he wanted them to play louder or softer. The reviews were so awful that some critics refused to attend another concert and guest conductors backed off. In 1994, the orchestra dropped Sinopoli. He died, poor chap, three years ago, aged 55, while conducting Aida in Berlin.

    I once suggested that the Philharmonia had split on his merits, only to receive a correction from the chairman who insisted that no more than five players ever thought he was any good. The rest put up with him for the record deal. In Sinopoli's case, the verdict of musicians and critics was pretty much unanimous. "
  • Richard Tarleton

    #2
    Saw Wyn Morris twice in 1972 - a rather odd Mahler 8 in the Albert Hall with a sort of composite orchestra, and the first perf of the latest Deryck Cooke 10 version with DC in the audience. Sounds as if he could be difficult...

    And to my great sadness I had a ticket to see Sinopoli shortly after he died. That doesn't sound quite right but you know what I mean. I have a couple of fine opera CDs.....

    Comment

    • Nick Armstrong
      Host
      • Nov 2010
      • 26592

      #3
      I'll pitch in with an on-topic copy of my off-topic contribution elsewhere...

      ... I agree about Sinopoli being unfairly judged. I have his Schubert/Mendelssohn, and a number of others. Latterly I was enthralled by hearing his Mahler 7 on the radio - in fact, I came in part way through Mvt I and stuck with it, trying to work out who was performing. When I found out it was the late lamented Dr Sinopoli, I meant to get the CDs but never did. I might now.

      PS I have this too. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Elgar-Sympho...9162793&sr=8-7 Terrific "In the South" (ditto his "Enigma" recording). Good reviews on that page...

      (Re: Handley - I think he was pretty universally rated, wasn't he? Are we sure he didn't turn down a gong?)
      "...the isle is full of noises,
      Sounds and sweet airs, that give delight and hurt not.
      Sometimes a thousand twangling instruments
      Will hum about mine ears, and sometime voices..."

      Comment

      • Beef Oven

        #4
        Originally posted by Richard Tarleton View Post
        Saw Wyn Morris twice in 1972 - a rather odd Mahler 8 in the Albert Hall with a sort of composite orchestra, and the first perf of the latest Deryck Cooke 10 version with DC in the audience. Sounds as if he could be difficult...

        And to my great sadness I had a ticket to see Sinopoli shortly after he died. That doesn't sound quite right but you know what I mean. I have a couple of fine opera CDs.....
        RT, thanks so much for the link. Fascinating, I didn't know half of it! What a character and what a talent though, eh?

        Comment

        • Beef Oven

          #5
          Originally posted by Caliban View Post
          I'll pitch in with an on-topic copy of my off-topic contribution elsewhere...

          ... I agree about Sinopoli being unfairly judged. I have his Schubert/Mendelssohn, and a number of others. Latterly I was enthralled by hearing his Mahler 7 on the radio - in fact, I came in part way through Mvt I and stuck with it, trying to work out who was performing. When I found out it was the late lamented Dr Sinopoli, I meant to get the CDs but never did. I might now.

          PS I have this too. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Elgar-Sympho...9162793&sr=8-7 Terrific "In the South" (ditto his "Enigma" recording). Good reviews on that page...

          (Re: Handley - I think he was pretty universally rated, wasn't he? Are we sure he didn't turn down a gong?)
          Re: Handley. You know what, after I posted, I wondered whether he'd turned a knighthood down! He never said anything to me about it though!

          Comment

          • subcontrabass
            Full Member
            • Nov 2010
            • 2780

            #6
            Originally posted by Caliban View Post



            (Re: Handley - I think he was pretty universally rated, wasn't he? Are we sure he didn't turn down a gong?)
            According to Wikipedia he turned down an OBE in 1988 but accepted a CBE in 2004.

            Comment

            • aeolium
              Full Member
              • Nov 2010
              • 3992

              #7
              I too am very keen on Sinopoli's Mahler 5 and 7 Philharmonia recordings. Whatever the problems between him and the orchestra, they don't appear here. The Wyn Morris Symphonica of London Mahler 8 was the first (LP) recording of that symphony I heard and I was impressed at the time (there are probably others I prefer now). I really don't think conductors should comment adversely on other (living) conductors' work.

              What about Louis Frémaux, sometime conductor of the CBSO, who also apparently had a difficult relationship with that orchestra? I know little about his work (I think I saw him conduct once, in a programme of Berlioz, but don't remember much about it).

              Comment

              • EnemyoftheStoat
                Full Member
                • Nov 2010
                • 1136

                #8
                IMHO, Sinopoli's Bruckner 5 is the finest I've heard - he gets the pacing dead on - and that Mendelssohn/Schubert is pretty fine too.

                Comment

                • Eine Alpensinfonie
                  Host
                  • Nov 2010
                  • 20576

                  #9
                  George Weldon was another fine conductor who deserved a better reputation.

                  Comment

                  • ahinton
                    Full Member
                    • Nov 2010
                    • 16123

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Richard Tarleton View Post
                    Saw Wyn Morris twice in 1972 - a rather odd Mahler 8 in the Albert Hall with a sort of composite orchestra, and the first perf of the latest Deryck Cooke 10 version with DC in the audience. Sounds as if he could be difficult...
                    I heard some earlyish performance by him that blew me away but I didn't actually encounter him until quite a lot later and I never got to know him all that well, but I found him to be all about pushing unlikely projects that never came off and his imbibing must have cost a not very small fortune...

                    Comment

                    • salymap
                      Late member
                      • Nov 2010
                      • 5969

                      #11
                      Wynn Morris was pushy as a student. I attended one of the Ernest Read Summer Schools and Wynn was already
                      upsetting professional musicians and coaches, including Adrian Boult, George Stratton, then LSO leader and others.
                      I was there as a listener and pianist and it was a very interesting experience.

                      Comment

                      • cloughie
                        Full Member
                        • Dec 2011
                        • 22222

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Eine Alpensinfonie View Post
                        George Weldon was another fine conductor who deserved a better reputation.
                        For whatever reason the Halle were run-of-the-mill under Weldon one week and superb under Sir John the following week.

                        Comment

                        • Beef Oven

                          #13
                          Originally posted by EnemyoftheStoat View Post
                          IMHO, Sinopoli's Bruckner 5 is the finest I've heard - he gets the pacing dead on - and that Mendelssohn/Schubert is pretty fine too.


                          I really don't understand why his Bruckner 5 with the Dresdeners is not more widely acclaimed.

                          Comment

                          • Beef Oven

                            #14
                            Originally posted by salymap View Post
                            Wynn Morris was pushy as a student. I attended one of the Ernest Read Summer Schools and Wynn was already
                            upsetting professional musicians and coaches, including Adrian Boult, George Stratton, then LSO leader and others.
                            I was there as a listener and pianist and it was a very interesting experience.
                            'very interesting experience' - well that's the understatement of the century!!!!

                            What an experience to have had

                            Comment

                            • Beef Oven

                              #15
                              Originally posted by aeolium View Post
                              I too am very keen on Sinopoli's Mahler 5 and 7 Philharmonia recordings. Whatever the problems between him and the orchestra, they don't appear here. The Wyn Morris Symphonica of London Mahler 8 was the first (LP) recording of that symphony I heard and I was impressed at the time (there are probably others I prefer now). I really don't think conductors should comment adversely on other (living) conductors' work.

                              What about Louis Frémaux, sometime conductor of the CBSO, who also apparently had a difficult relationship with that orchestra? I know little about his work (I think I saw him conduct once, in a programme of Berlioz, but don't remember much about it).
                              Louis Fremaux is a name that comes up from time to time, but I know nothing about him

                              Comment

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