Misunderstood/neglected/ignored conductors

[Richard Tarleton]

The two most underrated conductors in the world ever are surely Mark Wigglesworth and James Loughran.

Was/is James Loughran underrated Alison? I'd have thought he'd had a rather distinguished career?

He conducted one of the most thrilling concerts I've ever attended, Hallé in the RFH in 1972, not least because I was sitting just behind the trombones - Wagner Lohengrin Act 3 Prelude, Beethoven 4 (Ogdon), Bruckner 7

[Ariosto]

'Stanley Popr' was surely STANLEY POPE who was - I believe - the assistant conductor at the CBSO back in the days of Hugo Rignold.
I played for H.Rignold a couple of times in the 1960s, but never for S. Pope.

Well I was (unfortunately) in the CBSO at that time and there was no Pope. It was 'Arold Gray who was the (ass)istant carver.

Most conductors in any case should be misunderstood/negelected/ignored. A waste of space ...

(Don't get me wrong, I loooooooove conductors ...) (As long as they are on a church steeple ...)

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Depends who is underrating him: there are not many (fewer than twenty?) recordings from Loughran's entire career, there hasn't been any issues of his concerts from the BBC Archives and he probably wouldn't feature in any book with the title The Great Maestri.

But I treasure his Hallé recordings of Brahms, Beethoven, Holst, Elgar, Walton.

And the concerts:
Elgar #2; Brahms' #2; Schoenberg Variations; Beethoven Triple Concerto (Beaux Arts Trio); Bruckner 6 & 8; Lutoslawski Double Concerto (the Holligers) ...

[amateur51]

Depends who is underrating him: there are not many (fewer than twenty?) recordings from Loughran's entire career, there hasn't been any issues of his concerts from the BBC Archives and he probably wouldn't feature in any book with the title The Great Maestri.

But I treasure his Hallé recordings of Brahms, Beethoven, Holst, Elgar, Walton.

And the concerts:
Elgar #2; Brahms' #2; Schoenberg Variations; Beethoven Triple Concerto (Beaux Arts Trio); Bruckner 6 & 8; Lutoslawski Double Concerto (the Holligers) ...

[hmvman]

I saw Sir John Pritchard conducting a magnificent performance of Brahms' Symphony No.2 in York Minster as part of the 1984 York Festival. I was sitting at the west end of the nave behind the orchestra so could see Sir John from the orchestra's point of view. It was one of those memorable evenings! I remember Bryden Thomson conducting the BBC SO (I think) at York University in the late '80s. He gave, I thought, a fairly lacklustre performance of Mozart's 'Linz' symphony followed by an absolutely electrifying Beethoven 7th.

[Petrushka]

Depends who is underrating him: there are not many (fewer than twenty?) recordings from Loughran's entire career, there hasn't been any issues of his concerts from the BBC Archives and he probably wouldn't feature in any book with the title The Great Maestri.

But I treasure his Hallé recordings of Brahms, Beethoven, Holst, Elgar, Walton.

And the concerts:
Elgar #2; Brahms' #2; Schoenberg Variations; Beethoven Triple Concerto (Beaux Arts Trio); Bruckner 6 & 8; Lutoslawski Double Concerto (the Holligers) ...

I saw Loughran many times in the 1970's/1980's with the Halle in Manchester and elsewhere and have vivid memories of some outstanding accounts of Bruckner, Elgar, Brahms, Walton and Shostakovich among others. There was a superb RVW 9 in Stoke on Trent in 1976. The programming was often adventurous and something of a foretaste of what Rattle was to do a decade later in Birmingham. He had a wide repertoire and excelled in most of it. Most certainly under-rated in the wider musical world but clearly not forgotten by those who had something of an education from his programmes.

[Alison]

I suppose Mr Loughran really belongs to the 'neglected' category of Beefys original title.

As a kid I would listen to my fathers off air recordings and JL seemed a constant presence at the
Proms in the late 70s and early 80s. Coinciding with my own interest in music it seems that the former
Halle chief disappeared from view more or less completely.

Several of the major works were learned through his performances; he could make the BBCSO
play with a certain fire and intensity not associated with either Pritchard or Davis in later years.

I have met his son once or twice, a few years ago now, but he only wanted to talk about horse racing and betting.

[Tony Halstead]

JL 'disappeared' only from the UK scene. As I understand it he secured some top conducting posts in Japan many years ago, and the bulk of his work has been there.

[Extended Play]

This is a very enjoyable thread. May I add the name of Harry Newstone, and invite your comments? It has just come into my mind, not sure why -- but has prompted memories of his Haydn discs all those years ago.

Here's an extract from his obituary written by Martin Anderson in The Independent in 2006:

An event which should have guaranteed his breakthrough occurred on 31 March 1960. In the Royal Festival Hall that evening Basil Cameron had conducted the first half of a concert with the London Symphony Orchestra - Beethoven's Egmont Overture and "Emperor" Piano Concerto with Wilhelm Backhaus - but was taken ill on the podium and by the interval was too ill to carry on. Summoned from his London flat, Newstone arrived in time to conduct the second half of the programme, Sibelius' Fourth Symphony, entirely unprepared, and with less than an hour's notice he delivered a performance that was praised for its subtlety and power.

[Alison]

I believe Harry Newstone was also a late - perhaps not quite so late - replacement conductor
for a performance of Havergal Brian's Seventh Symphony.

In Brian circles this was something of a seminal event.

Stanley Pope also conducted Brian and so for that matter did James Loughran !

What happened to Myer Fredman of Havergal Brian Lyrita fame ??

[Petrushka]

I believe Harry Newstone was also a late - perhaps not quite so late - replacement conductor
for a performance of Havergal Brian's Seventh Symphony.

In Brian circles this was something of a seminal event.

Stanley Pope also conducted Brian and so for that matter did James Loughran !

What happened to Myer Fredman of Havergal Brian Lyrita fame ??

I remember well both Stanley Pope and Harry Newstone on R3 conducting Havergal Brian at a HB Festival from Alexandra Palace in 1976. Mind, the performance I remember most from that festival came from another HB - Hector Berlioz - and the first time I ever heard the Symphonie Funebre et Triomphale. Can anyone remember who the conductor was? Pope? Groves? Afraid I don't know.

[Alison]

That festival must have been quite an event. We could probably figure out the conductor if the
accompanying Brian works in the same concert could be established.

Come in Bryn !

[aeolium]

What about Raymond Leppard as another forgotten conductor? I seem to recall he annoyed some musicologists and critics with his productions of Monteverdi and Cavalli which were deemed not sufficiently authentic, but I enjoyed some of his recordings like the Mozart C minor Mass with the New Philharmonia and some Haydn symphonies. Didn't he go off to America after attacking the musical scene in the UK?

[cloughie]

Was/is James Loughran underrated Alison? I'd have thought he'd had a rather distinguished career?

He conducted one of the most thrilling concerts I've ever attended, Hallé in the RFH in 1972, not least because I was sitting just behind the trombones - Wagner Lohengrin Act 3 Prelude, Beethoven 4 (Ogdon), Bruckner 7

Yes he was underrated, he largely disappeared from the radar, certainly within these shores after leaving the Halle (in much better shape than when he arrived, despite having to live up tho the great Sir JB), and why have so many of his recordings disappeared to oblivion!

[ardcarp]

Well I was (unfortunately) in the CBSO at that time and there was no Pope. It was 'Arold Gray who was the (ass)istant carver.

Ariosto. Did you coincide with Felix Kok's leadership? Or with Tim Reynish (horn), Arthur Doyle (tuba) and Beresford King Smith (concert manager)? And did you play under the baton of Nadia Boulanger in works by her sister, Lili ?