Some real news maybe ?

[MrGongGong]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jun/04/gary-mckinnon-extradition

[Resurrection Man]

Not exactly sure what 'the news' is. Just comment on old news, surely?

[Richard Tarleton]

The news is that a decision is imminent. This has been the most appalling story from the start. NASA and the US Defence Dept should have thanked him for exposing the weaknesses in their system, and maybe even NASA given him a job. There seems to be a craven inability on the part of our government (both the previous one and the current one) to do the right thing.

[teamsaint]

The news is that a decision is imminent. This has been the most appalling story from the start. NASA and the US Defence Dept should have thanked him for exposing the weaknesses in their system, and maybe even NASA given him a job. There seems to be a craven inability on the part of our government (both the previous one and the current one) to do the right thing.

And the American government see to view freedom as something to talk about , rather than actually protect.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

The news is that a decision is imminent. This has been the most appalling story from the start. NASA and the US Defence Dept should have thanked him for exposing the weaknesses in their system, and maybe even NASA given him a job. There seems to be a craven inability on the part of our government (both the previous one and the current one) to do the right thing.

[jayne lee wilson]

The news is that a decision is imminent. This has been the most appalling story from the start. NASA and the US Defence Dept should have thanked him for exposing the weaknesses in their system, and maybe even NASA given him a job. There seems to be a craven inability on the part of our government (both the previous one and the current one) to do the right thing.

Yes, what pompous, posturing idiots Nasa, The Pentagon and the US government show themselves yet again to be. The special relationship (guffaw!) has again made fools of the government. Please Theresa, just DO something about it now!

I think I read that Gary Mckinnon hacked into the US systems using a dial-up connection! They should definitely have given him a job - before trying to destroy his soul. The Guardian today describes him as "sitting in the dark with his cats..." ...I certainly know that feeling well.

[MrGongGong]

Sadly (and no apologies to those who might find this offensive) given Camerons complete lack of empathy even though he was the parent of a disabled child , I feel (like many other parents of autistic and aspergers children) desperately worried about this whole thing. It doesn't bode well i'm afraid , I hope that my anxieties are unfounded but with such men in power I don't hold out much hope......

[Budapest]

MrGongGong, whatever Brits feel about being a part of Europe, the EU is top of the tree when it comes to human rights. No European court will extradite someone to a country that has the death penalty and routinely tortures prisoners (all well documented when it comes to the USA). It's no accident that the International Criminal Court (ICC) is in Europe; it could hardly be anywhere else. I've no idea why Britain wants to remain as an offshore American missile base, when its destiny is obviously with Europe (1066 and all that).

[MrGongGong]

Indeed we might be "top of the tree" but our extradition arrangements with the USA stink ........

[Bryn]

MrGongGong, whatever Brits feel about being a part of Europe, the EU is top of the tree when it comes to human rights. No European court will extradite someone to a country that has the death penalty and routinely tortures prisoners (all well documented when it comes to the USA). It's no accident that the International Criminal Court (ICC) is in Europe; it could hardly be anywhere else. I've no idea why Britain wants to remain as an offshore American missile base, when its destiny is obviously with Europe (1066 and all that).

But the UK is in the EU and yet has the most disgustingly servile extradition arrangements with the USA (whose penal system seems to be nothing less than medieval, pretty much on a par with that in China today when it comes to effective slave labour, and possibly worse when it comes to prison gang violence).

[amateur51]

But the UK is in the EU and yet has the most disgustingly servile extradition arrangements with the USA (whose penal system seems to be nothing less than medieval, pretty much on a par with that in China today when it comes to effective slave labour, and possibly worse when it comes to prison gang violence).

An utter disgrace

[Budapest]

But the UK is in the EU and yet has the most disgustingly servile extradition arrangements with the USA (whose penal system seems to be nothing less than medieval, pretty much on a par with that in China today when it comes to effective slave labour, and possibly worse when it comes to prison gang violence).

Bryn, without getting into the semantics of it, countries that join the EU don't join-up to everything, as you've pointed out when it comes to extradition. The thing is, all EU members are legally bound by the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR), which regularly gets rubbished in the British press for allowing 'muslim terrorists' to live on the dole or escape extradition, etc, etc. Another example is the Schengen Agreement, which allows open travel across borders in Europe, which the UK never signed-up to.

I'm probably not explaining myself very well. Julian Assange and the Wikileaks stuff: Assange, love him or hate him, has been under house arrest for more than five hundred days now, without any kind of charge. What’s happened to Habeas Corpus? Is this what modern day Britain has become? Sweden, too, is not fully signed-up to the European ideal, and if Assange gets sent back there he'll be shipped to the USA faster than his feet can touch the ground.

The interesting thing in all this is the European Court of Human Rights, and whether Britain and Sweden will ignore it. If they do, they are no part of Europe.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

The ECHR is not the EU, nor is it run by it, though the latter is subject to the former. I understand that Britain signed up to the ECHR long before joining the EU.
The European Court of Justice should not be confused with the European Court of Human Rights.

[scottycelt]

The ECHR is not the EU, nor is it run by it, though the latter is subject to the former. I understand that Britain signed up to the ECHR long before joining the EU.
The European Court of Justice should not be confused with the European Court of Human Rights.

Quite correct ...

It is also pertinent to point out that not only did the UK sign up to the ECHR but actually played a leading part in its foundation!

There are bound to be some 'dodgy' decisions in any court of law, as we are already perfectly aware here in the UK.

To be fair, the current European set-up is confusing, and, imo, the only real and lasting solution is a truly Federal Europe which recognises the inescapable realities of the modern world, but retains as much power as possible for the separate member states ... it has been done in the USA so why not in Europe?

The old argument 'against' .. ie language ... has surely long disappeared as a serious barrier to such a project!

[aeolium]

To be fair, the current European set-up is confusing, and, imo, the only real and lasting solution is a truly Federal Europe which recognises the inescapable realities of the modern world, but retains as much power as possible for the separate member states ... it has been done in the USA so why not in Europe?

The old argument 'against' .. ie language ... has surely long disappeared as a serious barrier to such a project!

Surely that was never much of an argument - after all, there are plenty of translators in the EU institutions.

On the other hand politics, history, culture, the huge variation in the economies of the different member states (an oversight in the creation of the Eurozone which has already proved enormously costly) are serious obstacles to a federal Europe - as is the probability that a great many people in Europe would not want it to happen, so that it would have to be imposed by the political elites. That would be a recipe for serious tension within and between countries and an acceleration in already rising nationalism and extremism. Not, imo, something to be welcomed.