EU discussion

[MrGongGong]

No problem with a monarchy. Want out of Europe. Life's what you make it

Problem with the "out of europe" thing really is that
we ARE European
always have been
and always will be
listen to music ............... our culture is European


and don't do that Talk Talk nonsense with me young man (though one of their better tunes it has to be said !)

[Beef Oven]

Problem with the "out of europe" thing really is that
we ARE European
always have been
and always will be
listen to music ............... our culture is European


and don't do that Talk Talk nonsense with me young man (though one of their better tunes it has to be said !)

I am more European than you are, I am happy with Europe and want to be forever part of it. It's the the fascist anti-democratic uber state that I want out of. See, it's easy when you know how.

[MrGongGong]

I am more European than you are, I am happy with Europe and want to be forever part of it. It's the the fascist anti-democratic uber state that I want out of. See, it's easy when you know how.

So are you happy with the "anti-democratic" coalition government ?

[Beef Oven]

So are you happy with the "anti-democratic" coalition government ?

Talk sense man.

[Mr Pee]

Talk sense man.

Dream on......

[Bryn]

he's making me angry!!!!!!!

No Good getting angry just because your twaddle has been rumbled.

[Beef Oven]

No Good getting angry just because your twaddle has been rumbled.

Back in your box Bryn, I'm not really angry.

[Nick Armstrong]

Thanks guys for those last couple of pages!!! Brilliant ding-dong!

[Beef Oven]

I AM NOT ANGRY!!!!!

[scottycelt]

I am more European than you are, I am happy with Europe and want to be forever part of it. It's the the fascist anti-democratic uber state that I want out of. See, it's easy when you know how.

The 'fascist anti-democratic uber state' is total twaddle. The veto ensures that no country can be forced to accept anything against the will of the government of that country. If governments wish they can put any treaty changes to the people for endorsement ... if they don't that's a matter for those governments and the people they are supposed to represent, not the EU.

The UK can leave the EU any time it wishes ... and indeed if I were a German, Frenchman etc, I'd be tempted to say in such circumstances 'a bloody good riddance!'

There are few things more irritating than somebody who freely joins a club, then constantly moans about the rules and also frequently insults the huge majority of the other members who are apparently happy with the arrangements ...

[Beef Oven]

The 'fascist anti-democratic uber state' is total twaddle. The veto ensures that no country can be forced to accept anything against the will of the government of that country. If governments wish they can put any treaty changes to the people for endorsement ... if they don't that's a matter for those governments and the people they are supposed to represent, not the EU.

The UK can leave the EU any time it wishes ... and indeed if I were a German, Frenchman etc, I'd be tempted to say in such circumstances 'a bloody good riddance!'

There are few things more irritating than somebody who freely joins a club, then constantly moans about the rules and also frequently insults the huge majority of the other members who are apparently happy with the arrangements ...

ah bless!! There's one born every minute!!!!

[Bryn]

ah bless!! There's one born every minute!!!!

What a thoroughly cogent argument. scottycelt must feel totally crestfallen.

[ahinton]

If a referendum on Britain's continued EU membership ever does occur (and, as I've noted previously, never say never on this) and the result is that Britain's voters decide that the nation remain within it, what then for the Beef Ovens, Mr Pees, &c.? Will they then complain about the voters? or about vote rigging? And what future then for UKIP after the British electorate will, broadly speaking, have delivered an indirect but clear thumbs down to a fundamental aspect of its very purpose?

[James Wonnacott]

If a referendum on Britain's continued EU membership ever does occur (and, as I've noted previously, never say never on this) and the result is that Britain's voters decide that the nation remain within it, what then for the Beef Ovens, Mr Pees, &c.? Will they then complain about the voters? or about votge rigging? And what future then for UKIP after the British electorate will, broadly speaking, have delivered an indirect but clear thumbs down to a fundamental aspect of its very purpose?

That would depend on whether it was a genuine in or out referendum. The likelihood is that, if a referendum were to be granted by any of the lib-lab-con bunch it would consist of three options, one being along the lines of "remain within the eu but renegotiate our membership terms", which any intelligent, or even vaguely bright, person knows, is not really an option.

If the majority of voters in a straight in or out referendum with a fair, unbiased run-up (particularly from the BBC) voted to stay in I would be very disappointed, of course, but would accept the decision.

[ahinton]

That would depend on whether it was a genuine in or out referendum. The likelihood is that, if a referendum were to be granted by any of the lib-lab-con bunch it would consist of three options, one being along the lines of "remain within the eu but renegotiate our membership terms", which any intelligent, or even vaguely bright, person knows, is not really an option.

Of course it isn't an option, simply because we are just one of 27 member states and have no exceptional status to enable us to do that. There would be no point in holding a referendum on UK's continued EU membership unless it were the kind of "in or out" one that you mention; I imagine that, on this, if nothing else, Beef Oven, Mr Pee, UKIP and the rest would agree with me - and I have no objection in principle to such a referendum being held if it could first be proved beyond reasonable doubt that a sufficient proportion of the electorate wanted it to be held (and it would have to be accepted that there are some people who favour the holding of such a referendum in order that UK remains in EU).

If the majority of voters in a straight in or out referendum with a fair, unbiased run-up (particularly from the BBC) voted to stay in I would be very disappointed, of course, but would accept the decision.

And if in such circumstances the majority voted to sever ties with EU I would be very worried indeed about what would happen next but would also accept the decision; what no one seems willing to address is what might happen to UKIP if the result of a referndum were to be the status quo, as this would effectively make it a redundant political party, thereby illustrating the fact that one-trick political ponies are a potential danger to themselves.

As I have already pointed out, I do not consider EU perfect and I have grave reservations about what was undoubtedly the premature instigation of the Eurozone, but the prospect of outright vilification of all kinds, not least economic, were UK to leave EU is frankly too appalling to contemplate. I have, however, encountered an alternative strain of opinion of late from certain quarters opposed to UK's continued EU membership, namely that a referendum on it should be discouraged at all costs and that we should instead wait for the total collapse of EU following the collapse of the Eurozone and then no one will be able to accuse the Brits of being the disruptive malcontent go-it-alones as which they'd have been portrayed had they instead actively voted to leave EU; it's an odd notion, but I suppose that I cannot be entirely surprised that some do hold it.