EU discussion

[MrGongGong]

How much is a return ticket to your planet? I'd like to have a look around.

Hope your dear leader isn't the pilot !
i'd rather fly with Bruce or Gary .......

[ahinton]

hummmm

So I guess an "unelected government" is ok as long as they are British ?
Since when did any government govern "according to the wishes of the majority" ???

and thank whoever that they don't ...... unless you are in favour of public executions etc etc etc

One of the main problems is in this language

"the common enemy" ........ as with the "WAR' on drugs it's this kind of thinking that we need to change .............

That's absolutely right - and it was this "common enemy" talk that gave rise to my description of that viewpoint as "unpleasant".

And, speaking of "war", there appear to be a few people here who would jump for joy if the Eurozone did collapse and some of them might do the same - even higher - should such a collapse result in the dissolution of EU, irrespective of the vast economic damage that such disintegration would cause to almost everyone in UK (assuming that there still is a "UK" at the time that those things came about); what's worse, however, is the very real fear that one likely outcome of such wholsale fragmentation would be a pan-European war that would likely be far worse even than WWII in that it would not be a relatively simple case of Germany on one side and the "Allies" on the other but somewhere between 40 and 70+ European nations all with different individual agendas fighting one another for the chance to see them through.

[Beef Oven]

That's absolutely right - and it was this "common enemy" talk that gave rise to my description of that viewpoint as "unpleasant".

And, speaking of "war", there appear to be a few people here who would jump for joy if the Eurozone did collapse and some of them might do the same - even higher - should such a collapse result in the dissolution of EU, irrespective of the vast economic damage that such disintegration would cause to almost everyone in UK (assuming that there still is a "UK" at the time that those things came about); what's worse, however, is the very real fear that one likely outcome of such wholsale fragmentation would be a pan-European war that would likely be far worse even than WWII in that it would not be a relatively simple case of Germany on one side and the "Allies" on the other but somewhere between 40 and 70+ European nations all with different individual agendas fighting one another for the chance to see them through.

oooh, 'unpleasant'

[ahinton]

How much is a return ticket to your planet? I'd like to have a look around.

If I had one (which I don't) I would reserve the right to refuse you an entry visa. What in any case do you think that you'd be looking for?

Which of the statements that you quote bother you? We have bureaucrats of our own in Britain; right or wrong? Many people entitled to vote in UK General Elections do not vote for the incumbent government; right or wrong? UK is a tiny country unlikely to screw itself into a position to be any kind of "superstate"; right or wrong? Is EU perfect? Of course not! Is the Eurozone a good idea? Possibly so, but its inception was woefully premature.

[James Wonnacott]

That's both an over-simplistic and thoroughly unpleasant viewpoint. Which areas of that establishment hae so conspired? Whoever has suggested that any UK government has tried (and it would be exceedingly stupid to try it in any case) to turn UK into any kind of "European superstate". This knee-jerk "unelected bureaucrats in Brussels" phrase surely went out with the ark, did it not? Many of those who hold governmental power in countries that regularly hold democratic elections are not elected by those in their electorates who vote instead for another party and that's expecially the case when a General Election results in a coalition such as the present one or when there's no overall majority; furthermore, many poeople just don't vote at all (though no one stops them from voting). Don't we have plenty of home-grown bureaucrats or do you genuinely believe that such people only live and work in Belgium?

And why do you think so many people don't vote?

[ahinton]

oooh, 'unpleasant'

Yes; I was trying to be polite. I should perhaps have spared myself the effort. Not to worry; I have clarified why it is a viewpoint that I do not hold and whose credibility has grave shortcomings.

[ahinton]

And why do you think so many people don't vote?

There may be almost as many reasons as there are non-voters, but whilst disillusionment clearly fuels the majority of them, they're not all disillusioned with precisely the same thing and their abstentions are certainly not all because of the power accorded to "Brussels bureaucrats", as certain of the more vociferous UKippers would try to have some of us believe.

[Beef Oven]

Yes; I was trying to be polite. I should perhaps have spared myself the effort. Not to worry; I have clarified why it is a viewpoint that I do not hold and whose credibility has grave shortcomings.

I am disappointed that being polite is an effort for you.

[MrGongGong]

And why do you think so many people don't vote?

Because the evil bureaucrats in Brussels have infected their brains and made them into zombies , all part of the master plan
don't you know nuffing ?

(try searching for EU Nazi roots )

[Serial_Apologist]

hummmm

So I guess an "unelected government" is ok as long as they are British ?
Since when did any government govern "according to the wishes of the majority" ???

and thank whoever that they don't ...... unless you are in favour of public executions etc etc etc

One of the main problems is in this language

"the common enemy" ........ as with the "WAR' on drugs it's this kind of thinking that we need to change .............

The nation state will remain the geopolitical expression of ruling class interests for as long as we have the politics of divide-and-rule, and for as long as it is of use to the ruling class in protecting those interests. Globalisation is nothing new. Beyond providing a bastion against Communism, the EU was their latest project to rationalise capitalist production and profits maximisation in competition with the US - and lately the Far East - by breaking with trade restrictions and creating free movement of labour exploitation. In this it has failed - increasingly leading the national boirgeoisies to revert ideologically to nationalist rhetoric behind the safety of the nation state while maintaining the pretense that all will be well once we're over the hump.

[Beef Oven]

If your gonna condescend yerself, it's 'nuffink' not 'nuffing' - you bourgeois-types just can't do it, can ya?

[MrGongGong]

If your gonna condescend yerself, it's 'nuffink' not 'nuffing' - you bourgeois-types just can't do it, can ya?

Do UKIP meet in a Planet Gong style teleconference ?
I'm finding it's stretching the bounds of credulity to think that people who know so much about music would be taken in by such a load of twaddle

[Mr Pee]

Do UKIP meet in a Planet Gong style teleconference ?
I'm finding it's stretching the bounds of credulity to think that people who know so much about music would be taken in by such a load of twaddle

I wasn't aware that knowing a lot about music came with an attached compulsory political viewpoint. Some people who know a lot about music also vote Conservative, you know...or UKIP.

[Mr Pee]

How much is a return ticket to your planet? I'd like to have a look around.

I'm not sure that I would.....

[Bryn]

I'm not sure that I would.....

Bad news. You live there.