EU discussion

[Mahlerei]

Oh dear, the inmates of Nut Wood are on the loose.

[french frank]

The them and us, for a lot of people, is not about us and the Germans, or us and the Greeks, or us and the French....but about us and them, the people who control us, whether they be the Bank of England, The IMF, The ECB, Euro politicians, Cameron and Clegg, newscorp , the Mail, whoever.

If you will. But they'll still be with us even if we aren't in Europe. The idea that we want to rule ourselves, we don't want powerful outside organisations telling us what to do, is pie in the sky. We're locked into the system that we have.

[Lateralthinking1]

Contrary to the impression that might have been given by the Mail, ordinary British delegates to the UN in Geneva are fully taxed here at source. I couldn't comment on UN employees.

[Bryn]

Back in 1974 I was one of the 'lefties' who effectively broke ranks to argue in favour of a "Yes" vote in the referendum. At the time, the crucial positive feature of membership was, I reckoned, the building of a political and economic block offering some protection against the then two superpowers, the USA and USSR. Today, the USSR has gone, but Russia, as its stand re. Assad demonstrates, is still a difficult player. The USA remains as hegemonic as ever, and now China is poised to become the most powerful player on the field. For all its many faults, the EU needs the UK and the UK needs the EU. In today's world, UK 'independence' is a myth, and would remain so if the UK pulled out of the EU.

[teamsaint]

If you will. But they'll still be with us even if we aren't in Europe. The idea that we want to rule ourselves, we don't want powerful outside organisations telling us what to do, is pie in the sky. We're locked into the system that we have.

Well It may be true that they will still be with us....the power of big organisations is very great.
That is no reason to just accept bigger and more powerful "outside" control. There is every reason for all Europeans to take control of their own affairs, as far as is possible and sensible...not from other Europeans specifically, but from powerful vested interests that use supra national bodies to further their cause.
I think our political landscape in this country might look very different if we were under EU austerity measures, instead of our own home grown version.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Back in 1974 I was one of the 'lefties' who effectively broke ranks to argue in favour of a "Yes" vote in the referendum. At the time, the crucial positive feature of membership was, I reckoned, the building of a political and economic block offering some protection against the then two superpowers, the USA and USSR. Today, the USSR has gone, but Russia, as its stand re. Assad demonstrates, is still a difficult player. The USA remains as hegemonic as ever, and now China is poised to become the most powerful player on the field. For all its many faults, the EU needs the UK and the UK needs the EU. In today's world, UK 'independence' is a myth, and would remain so if the UK pulled out of the EU.

and, if I may be so bold,

[Beef Oven]

Funny these UKIPpies seem very much exercised with the lack of democracy and "waste" of "our" money when it comes to the EU
yet are more than happy to have the Royals being tax free and subsidised by our taxes ................

maybe some of us would be more amenable if the views were consistent ?
or are the royal family somehow immune from the "desperate" need for "democratic accountability" ?

Very happy with it

[Beef Oven]

Back in 1974 I was one of the 'lefties' who effectively broke ranks to argue in favour of a "Yes" vote in the referendum. At the time, the crucial positive feature of membership was, I reckoned, the building of a political and economic block offering some protection against the then two superpowers, the USA and USSR. Today, the USSR has gone, but Russia, as its stand re. Assad demonstrates, is still a difficult player. The USA remains as hegemonic as ever, and now China is poised to become the most powerful player on the field. For all its many faults, the EU needs the UK and the UK needs the EU. In today's world, UK 'independence' is a myth, and would remain so if the UK pulled out of the EU.

Wrong then, wrong now.

[Bryn]

Wrong then, wrong now.

Clearly a comment from cloud cuckoo land.

[Beef Oven]

Clearly a comment from cloud cuckoo land.

if you say so Bryn

[Beef Oven]

Let's not forget that members of Their Lordships' House can claim £300/day that they attend, tax free

We should sort out the House of Lords first instead of whimbling about the EU - HoL is our direct responsibility

No, we sort out Europe and the upper house.

[Roehre]

Personally, I love being a European, culturally, and have no objection to being one politically. All this Them and us, and what They are going to do to us has no resonance for me at all.

[Roehre]

Back in 1974 I was one of the 'lefties' who effectively broke ranks to argue in favour of a "Yes" vote in the referendum. At the time, the crucial positive feature of membership was, I reckoned, the building of a political and economic block offering some protection against the then two superpowers, the USA and USSR. Today, the USSR has gone, but Russia, as its stand re. Assad demonstrates, is still a difficult player. The USA remains as hegemonic as ever, and now China is poised to become the most powerful player on the field. For all its many faults, the EU needs the UK and the UK needs the EU. In today's world, UK 'independence' is a myth, and would remain so if the UK pulled out of the EU.

With FHG and

[MrGongGong]

Very happy with it

So I guess you don't really care about the whole democratic thing
or even taxes being used to fund the lifestyles of the rich


so the "outrage" at the seeming waste of money that is the EU is really without much substance

why demand a referendum on one without advocating getting rid of the other ?

and it's not as if the Royal family are even English (or Scottish or Welsh for that matter )............ unelected , undemocratic foreigners meddling in our affairs ?

[Beef Oven]

So I guess you don't really care about the whole democratic thing
or even taxes being used to fund the lifestyles of the rich


so the "outrage" at the seeming waste of money that is the EU is really without much substance

why demand a referendum on one without advocating getting rid of the other ?

and it's not as if the Royal family are even English (or Scottish or Welsh for that matter )............ unelected , undemocratic foreigners meddling in our affairs ?

No problem with a monarchy. Want out of Europe. Life's what you make it