Music for 2012 Olympics

[Flosshilde]

Quilter's Non Nobis is a setting of words by Kipling, and the music, written in 1934, matches Edwardian sensibilities.

A piece written in 1934, performed in 1948, matching Edwardian sensibilities? As Ardcarp said, ludicrously backward-looking.

[Pabmusic]

Quilter's Non Nobis is a setting of words by Kipling, and the music, written in 1934, matches Edwardian sensibilities.

A piece written in 1934, performed in 1948, matching Edwardian sensibilities? As Ardcarp said, ludicrously backward-looking.

I'm slightly puzzled by this. You both seem to criticise the piece for matching "Edwardian sensibilities" - whatever they were - and thus being backward-looking. The piece was written - that is, music and words - for some public occasion in 1934, called "The Pageant of Parliament". The author (Rudyard Kipling) was about 70, the composer 57. Neither is noted for having been particularly 'progressive', let alone avant-garde. Yet Kipling produced a reasonable text, with a reasonable, non-political, message of 'don't let it all go to your heads':

Non Nobis, Domine!
Not unto us, O Lord,
The praise and glory be
Of any deed or word.
For in Thy judgement lies
To crown or bring to nought
All knowledge and device
That man has reached or wrought.

And we confess our blame,
How all too high we hold
That noise which men call fame,
That dross which men call gold.
For these we undergo
Our hot and godless days,
But in our souls we know
Not unto us the praise.

O Power by whom we live
Creator, Judge and Friend,
Upholdingly forgive,
Nor leave us at the end.
But grant us yet to see,
In all our piteous ways,
Non Nobis, Domine,
Not unto us the praise.

...and Quilter responded with a singable setting. Pure occasional music, but of quality. If it was used for the 1948 games, then I can understand why it was seen as appropriate, for the previous games had been the highly political 1936 Olympics in Berlin.

[Flosshilde]

Edward VII - the monarch who's reign is usually described as 'Edwardian' - died in 1910, so a piece written in 1934 which 'matched Edwardian sensibilities' (whatever they are, as you say) was surely thoroughly backward looking.

[Pabmusic]

Edward VII - the monarch who's reign is usually described as 'Edwardian' - died in 1910, so a piece written in 1934 which 'matched Edwardian sensibilities' (whatever they are, as you say) was surely thoroughly backward looking.

Yes, I see what you mean. Perhaps it was unfair to include your literalist point in my post.

[Flosshilde]

It wasn't me that mentioned Edwardian sensibilities first, sir. Can anyone explain what they are?

Kipling's poem does have a lot to say that counters the hype & folly of modern Olympics. Perhaps there should be a new setting, to be sung at the start of each day by a choir made up of LOCOG (yuk), the Cabinet, & the international Olympic committee. The latter could adopt it as their anthem, sung at the beginning of each committee meeting.

(although I have doubts about the first & third verses)

[salymap]

It was a choir of 1200 amateur choral singers singing Non Nobis Domine in front of an audience of thousands,at Wembley and seen on film. Hardly the setting for anything but that kind of Anthem. It kicked off the Games to a rousing start. You can't just throw out all the past, even if you wish to.

[Flosshilde]

Goodness me no - that's the last thing I'd want to do. But we can't constantly hark back to the past as the only source of what is good. As Mr GongGong said originally (I think) why can't the Olympics have good, new, live music, sung by massed choirs perhaps, rather than people miming? Leaving aside what I think of the Olympics, the opening is just the occasion for that sort of music.

[salymap]

Goodness me no - that's the last thing I'd want to do. But we can't constantly hark back to the past as the only source of what is good. As Mr GongGong said originally (I think) why can't the Olympics have good, new, live music, sung by massed choirs perhaps, rather than people miming? Leaving aside what I think of the Olympics, the opening is just the occasion for that sort of music.

I agree but music for an occasion should have stood the test of time surely Flossie. I spent years trying to promote new works and very few of the pieces I dealt with are played today. Most publishers will tell you the same. Bring on new works certainly but there must be a balance. And people miming, yuk.

[Flosshilde]

I would say the opposite - that special events are the time for something new written specifically for the event. If it gets performed again good - more money in the composer's pocket, if nothing else. If it doesn't then it served its purpose.

[EnemyoftheStoat]

In the 1948 Olympic Games at Wembley Stadium, the opening ceremony had Sargent conducting the Royal Choral Society in Roger Quilter's Non Nobis Domine. I remember it because I had friends in the Choir who talked about it.

The opening ceremony choir in fact consisted of members of Alexandra Choral Society, BBC Choral Society, City of Westminster Music Society, Harrow Choral Society, National Provincial Bank Choir, Royal Choral Society and Wembley Philharmonic Society.

[ardcarp]

National Provincial Bank Choir

I wonder, given the present economic climate, how a load of bankers would be received at the Olympic Ceremony?

I thoroughly enjoyed blasting it out as a treble - so much so that I bought my own copy so that I could accompany myself at home

My story is almost identical...except my copy (in front of me now)...has ******* School stamped on it.

Should I return it after all these years?

[salymap]

It's a long time ago [1948] but I remember that Sargent either said or wrote that conducting all those choirs was a bit like having an octopus on a lead. They were all rehearsed by their own choir masters and came together for the Ceremony I suppose. I only heard the RCS at rehearsal singing it but liked it. Sorry

[decantor]

My story is almost identical...except my copy (in front of me now)...has ******* School stamped on it. Should I return it after all these years?

Definitely not, ardcarp. You will get more fun out of it than they ever will. Anyway, you saved yourself 5d. But wasn't the accompaniment fun - all those scrunchy suspensions, ninths, and interwoven trumpet calls? Made a 12-yo proud! At the time, I was also enjoying There'll always be an England, and Parry's setting of the sceptred-isle Gaunt speech, and RVW's Let us now praise famous men, not to mention my own piano version of Walton's Crown Imperial. Such a shame that the fashion now is to trash England's heritage, though I admit my own musical tastes have changed pretty radically since then.

I apologise that my loose terminology in speaking of "Edwardian sensibilities" caused so much confusion. I was looking for a shorthand way to refer to patriotic songs in the Parry/Elgar tradition: musically, Quilter's unison Non Nobis would not be out of place towards the end of the last night of the Proms. It's actually a very good tune of its type, and I found myself humming it endlessly while working in the garden in today's sunshine. With altered words (Pro nobis, Domine?), it would have made a great School Song - if you can recall that largely defunct species. I see no reason to disparage music where all feel free and able to join in. If nothing else, Non Nobis is inclusive - why kick it?

[salymap]

Non Nobis is a good tune. I still remember it after all those years. I feel Ishould know more of Quilter's music but the only thing I can recall hearing is the Children's Overture in my concert going days.

Apart from some songs of course.

[ardcarp]

If nothing else, Non Nobis is inclusive - why kick it?

Why indeed? There are also some great tunes in what used to be called The Public School Hymn Book, later PC-ly renamed Hymns for Church and School. Very sttirring with 800 adolescent voices in full-cry. My own music master (as opposed to choirmaster) had a penchant for extremely soppy stuff, e.g. from the pen of Eric Thiman ('Brave Isle of Meadow Cliff and Cloud' springs to mind) which even in my innocent, pre-cynical days I thought well OTT.