The off-topic YMotY thread

[MrGongGong]

Well said, FF. I just hope Am51 and Mr GG take notice.

I love this
it's just like when my daughter was a stroppy teenager and used to chase us round the house trying to keep on arguing !
Is this the R D Laing appreciation society by any chance

please miss , a big boy did it and ran away

[EdgeleyRob]

If I can possibly get the last word on this thread -

This gets ridiculous when numerous threads seem to feature the same people having silly squabbles.

It's very boring so stop it. I'll repeat this on every relevant thread.

Perhaps we need a sin bin.

[Panjandrum]

I think the very limited number of posts (and even fewer posters) on what has been an extremely high profile series of broadcasts should be indicative of how this bickering is deterring existing and potential forum members from contributing. I can't begin to tell you how all of this is damaging the reputation of the forum. Can anyone seriously imagine anyone from the BBC, or the media in general, taking this forum seriously after this?

Let's stick to discussing music and consigning the other nonsense to the dustbin. My preference would be for all non musical subjects to be banned forthwith from this forum as I personally believe they are a deterrent to this forum gaining a higher profile and more serious reputation as a constructive critic of the current R3 regime. There are other fora which cater for these extra musical subjects as I am sure we all know. Those who wish to continue their petty squabbling should pitch up there.

[MrGongGong]

A couple of questions then .......... (as I seem to be one of those who "squabbles" !)

If we are discussing Shostakovitch am I allowed to mention Stalin ?
If we are discussing music am I allowed to mention it's wider context OR do I have to confine my arguments to those of sonic phenomena ?
If we are discussing the history of British experimental music am I allowed to mention Cardew's politics or is Bryn even ALLOWED in the room ?
If someone makes up a load on nonsense (which IS a matter of opinion !) are we allowed to challenge it ?
if it concerns music ?
or something "extra-musical" ? (whatever that might mean)
If I want to discuss spectro-morphological approaches in acousmatic composition will I be talking to myself ?
and following on from Cage ......... What exactly is a "non-musical" subject ?
and, who decides ?

[teamsaint]

the "squabbling " is on a music thread.
most "fora" (new one on me) have general discussion areas, and are all the better for it.

I suspect that general discussion areas bring people into the forum, rather than keeping them out.

lets have a heated debate !!

[MrGongGong]

lets have a heated debate !!

No lets not
lets have a C# diminished chord followed by a D#
then a slowly revolving series of notes based on a magic square

[teamsaint]

No lets not
lets have a C# diminished chord followed by a D#
then a slowly revolving series of notes based on a magic square

yeah, well I was just about to suggest that as an alternative, but then I thought I would leave it to somebody else.

[Mr Pee]

I think the very limited number of posts (and even fewer posters) on what has been an extremely high profile series of broadcasts should be indicative of how this bickering is deterring existing and potential forum members from contributing.

Possibly. Although it might also reflect the fact that this YM competition was so banal and dumbed-down in style that many forum members gave up in despair. I certainly did until the final, and even that was hard to watch, so crass was the presentation.

If I want to discuss spectro-morphological approaches in acousmatic composition will I be talking to myself ?

I should have thought that would be extremely likely.....

[Hornspieler]

I think the very limited number of posts (and even fewer posters) on what has been an extremely high profile series of broadcasts should be indicative of how this bickering is deterring existing and potential forum members from contributing. I can't begin to tell you how all of this is damaging the reputation of the forum. Can anyone seriously imagine anyone from the BBC, or the media in general, taking this forum seriously after this?

Let's stick to discussing music and consigning the other nonsense to the dustbin. My preference would be for all non musical subjects to be banned forthwith from this forum as I personally believe they are a deterrent to this forum gaining a higher profile and more serious reputation as a constructive critic of the current R3 regime. There are other fora which cater for these extra musical subjects as I am sure we all know. Those who wish to continue their petty squabbling should pitch up there.

Hear, Hear How about setting up a new sub-forum entitled "Politics and Political Comment"? HS

[MrGongGong]

Hear, Hear How about setting up a new sub-forum entitled "Politics and Political Comment"? HS

Can we talk about Shostakovitch ?
and if so .......... where ?
or , like the LPO, ? are we to believe that "music has nothing to do with politics" .............

[ahinton]

Perhaps that has something to do with the fact that they are better educated at such establishments than in our state schools. But of course you see it as some sort of class conspiracy. The failing is in the state education system.

It would not be unreasonable to deduce from your remark here that you think that all private shools offer better quality teaching in all areas of education than do state schools; whether or not my assumption of your viewpoint is correct, what if anything do you believe should be done about it? and are you of the opinion that all those able to benefit from private education funded on their behalf merit the advantages that you perceive in private education more than does anyone else who happens to be in a less privileged position? In other words, does private education for the offspring of the wealthy and state ditto for everyone else literally mean better education for the former and worse for the latter? - and do you believe that it should?

[MrGongGong]

It would not be unreasonable to deduce from your remark here that you think that all private shools offer better quality teaching in all areas of education than do state schools; whether or not my assumption of your viewpoint is correct, what if anything do you believe should be done about it? and are you of the opinion that all those able to benefit from private education funded on their behalf merit the advantages that you perceive in private education more than does anyone else who happens to be in a less privileged position? In other words, does private education for the offspring of the wealthy and state ditto for everyone else literally mean better education for the former and worse for the latter? - and do you believe that it should?

indeed

and I really would like to know HOW people "know" this ?
I spend a lot of time in all sorts of schools ranging from the scary "zoo" variety to ones where you have to be a brilliant musician to ones where you need parents with loads of cash........ which is one of the ways that I get information about this. One thing I am certain of though, is that our assumptions are often wrong ! (I was once paid a handsome sum by a very well known private school to teach their A level students about Stockhausens use of ring modulation in Mixtur )

[ahinton]

Whilst I realise that this thread has gone well off-topic from almost the get-go (and, in my response to Mr Pee's remaks about private v. state education I admit to being as gulty as the next contributor of having made it so), why in any case is there a second one for the BBC Young Musician of the Year topic when there was and is another one running in the Performance section of the forum?

[ahinton]

indeed

and I really would like to know HOW people "know" this ?
I spend a lot of time in all sorts of schools ranging from the scary "zoo" variety to ones where you have to be a brilliant musician to ones where you need parents with loads of cash........ which is one of the ways that I get information about this. One thing I am certain of though, is that our assumptions are often wrong ! (I was once paid a handsome sum by a very well known private school to teach their A level students about Stockhausens use of ring modulation in Mixtur )

People don't know it, of course, whatever some of them might seek to persude one otherwise; it's not even knowable in the first place, not least because it is not true in the inflexible monochromatic way in which it is sometimes portrayed - what, few flaws within the private education sector and few merits within the public one? Furthermore, little reference to the training of teachers appears to be made in such dogmatic observations as we've read here, to the extent that no one seems to be including any assumptions (correct or otherwise) as to what might make teachers decide between working within the state sector or the private sector when they've generally benefitted from the same or similar university education and teacher training before making that decision - and I've yet to observe any discussion of those teachers who have practised within both sectors rather than confine their entire careers to working within one or the other.

[Serial_Apologist]

Whilst I realise that this thread has gone well off-topic from almost the get-go (and, in my response to Mr Pee's remaks about private v. state education I admit to being as gulty as the next contributor of having made it so), why in any case is there a second one for the BBC Young Musician of the Year topic when there was and is another one running in the Performance section of the forum?

And indeed a new thread on the key question of key, fergodssakes?