Happy Europe Day, Everyone!

[Beef Oven]

......so perhaps it is obvious what he means even though it's technically incorrect.

Well done, you got there!

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

i do feel that one should keep one's shirt sleeves very firmly down and buttoned now ....

[Flosshilde]

Britain is my 'country', even though technically I am 25% British, "25% Italian, 25% Austrian & 25% Serbian. I am British 'through and through'.

But it's possible to believe that 'Britain' is your "country" (even though, as I pointed out, Britain is not a country) and also believe that you are European, which is what Mr Pee denied; and impossible not to be European, as Britain is part of the European continental land mass.

as we say

I'm not sure who says things like "British through and through", apart from you & possibly Daily Mail readers. It sounds rather archaic.

[Beef Oven]

I'm not sure who says things like "British through and through", apart from you & possibly Daily Mail readers. It sounds rather archaic.

We British say it.

[ahinton]

Well done, you got there!

Where? I did not suggest that I had failed to understand what Mr Pee meant by what he wrote; I merely challenged its veracity by enquiring as to why and on what grounds he appeared to wish to let us all know that he considered the fact of being British and that of being European mutually incompatible (at least for him and, presumably by implication, for other Brits as well).

But then what do I know? Like Mr Pee, I have a great admiration for the best of Elgar's work, yet (perhaps) unlike him I have never been especially impressed by its once much-vaunted "Englishness" - and let's not forget how that German fellow Richard Strauss thought so highly of some of his music, at a time when it could reasonably be argued that most English music was not an especially high priority for most Germans.

[Beef Oven]

Where? I did not suggest that I had failed to understand what Mr Pee meant by what he wrote; I merely challenged its veracity by enquiring as to why and on what grounds he appeared to wish to let us all know that he considered the fact of being British and that of being European mutually incompatible (at least for him and, presumably by implication, for other Brits as well).

But then what do I know? Like Mr Pee, I have a great admiration for the best of Elgar's work, yet (perhaps) unlike him I have never been especially impressed by its once much-vaunted "Englishness" - and let's not forget how that German fellow Richard Strauss thought so highly of some of his music, at a time when it could reasonably be argued that most English music was not an especially high priority for most Germans.

Oh dear, you've had a relapse - Just when I thought you'd got it!

[Flosshilde]

We British say it.

Who are "we British"? I don't think many Scots would (except perhaps the Orange-hued ones), probably not many Welsh, either. I'm English & I've never said it.

[Beef Oven]

Who are "we British"? I don't think many Scots would (except perhaps the Orange-hued ones), probably not many Welsh, either. I'm English & I've never said it.

You must've said it once.

[Flosshilde]

You must've said it once.

Must I? You sound very certain.

[Mr Pee]

Quite. What puzzles me (among other things) about Mr Pee's assertion here, for all that it is his prerogative to decide not only where he lives but why he chooses to do so, is that he claims to live in Britain "due to" the fact of its being the alleged country of his birth and alleged ancestry (I write "alleged country" since Britain is not, as has already been noted here, a country but a union of three of them that has an association with a fourth, i.e. the United Kingdom of Great Britian and Northern Ireland - but let's not quibble about such matters, since we know that Mr Pee lives in England and he has not said otherwise); why and how on earth could (still less should) the fact of having been born in a particular country determine that one must continue to live there? Surely one's place of abode is a matter of personal choice rather than personal history?

Anyway, more important than all of that is the fact that Mr Pee has yet to tell us, despite being asked politely, to what location outside Europe and under whose authority he moved Britain from the place where I last saw it on a map; it is not even a "sceptr'd isle" any more, since the opening of the Channel Tunnel made it possible to travel by land to what was once thought of as the continental mainland, but that's rather beside the point that is instead the fact that, geographically, the countries of Britain belong to Europe just as does Ireland to their west and Norway to their north-east, even though the latter remains for the time being outside EU (but then lots of other European countries are also outside EU for the time being, but that does not make them non-European).

Oh my goodness Mr Hinton. You really do have a tendency to take a simple statement and micro-analyse it to the point of exhaustion.

I was born here, in Britain- or England if you prefer. My family are here, my friends (yes, I do have some!) are here, my, for want of a better word, roots are here. And like most people, the sheer expense, disruption, and practicalities of moving abroad on a permanent basis have meant that here I stay. However, I consider myself English, not European.

And you might be surprised to hear that I have not moved this island anywhere. If I had such superhuman powers, I would move it somewhere sunnier. And much further away from Europe. The South Pacific would be a good location I think.

[Beef Oven]

Must I? You sound very certain.

"Well, in this life, you're either certain or you're not" - A.T.P Hargreaves, 'The Third Season'.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

yep one cheer for europe, vive l'europe etc etc ... peace in our time is a noble aspiration ... and this was an original part of the impulse eh ....


i have no interest tho in the EEC the United Kingdom England Scotland etc all concoctions of gangsters and violence and never ever decided by 'people' ... and the whole sheebang was mystified in Victorian times by royal employees and men in skirts

[Beef Oven]

yep two cheers for europe, vive l'europe etc etc ...


i have no interest tho in the EEC the United Kingdom England Scotland etc all concoctions of gangsters and violence and never ever decided by 'people' ... and mystified in Victorian times by royal employees and men in skirts

Argentina's the place for you my son!

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

well yes i do find Buenos Aires a most congenial city Beef Oven

and they did tell the bankers and imf to shove their debts and focused upon creating a better off general population rather than a kleptocracy as we practice here ... so i do regard Argentina as an example for us all in these difficult times

[Beef Oven]

well yes i do find Buenos Aires a most congenial city Beef Oven

]

Me too! My Spanish is rubbish (o'level!!) and I am not entirely sure about some of the music.