One year on from Blackpool and Fukushima....

[vinteuil]

As medical science improves, of course more people die from cancer.

100% of us have to die of something.
In the bad old days most of us died relatively young, from malnourishment, infectious diseases - plague, cholera, typhoid, mumps, measles, tuberculosis etc.

In the last century in the west medicine has succeeded in 'saving' us from such as more and more treatments have been developed.

What is left to kill us will be the most intractable diseases - such as cancer.

So inevitably far more of us die from cancer now than did 100 years ago - this is the result of progress, not otherwise.

[teamsaint]

Its also fair to say that the drugs companies are very much more interested those conditions that require long term and/or expensive drug treatment..such as chronic conditions and cancers.
Hence the under investment in new antibiotics, for instance.

[Budapest]

Resurrection Man, thanks for reproducing the articles you linked to. I found them most interesting, but have to say that when you look at any study you also have to look at who funds the study (ie, vested interests). If interested here's a New York Times opinion piece that gives a very different view of cancer rates in America:

We can stop the cancer epidemic

And here's one from CounterPunch:

Is Cancer Epidemic in America?

Mr GongGong, I'm glad to hear that you successfully had your kidney tumour removed (do you keep it in a jar?) and I sincerely wish you many more years of debating with people like me on the internet; and yes, there is a real complaint called 'heavy legs' in France. It's probably a result of too much vin rouge. The French are shocking hypochondriacs. My theory is that it's because they pay so much for their health service (tax and social security payments combined means that the average French person pays about 40% of their income to the state) so they use it as much as possible. Emma Jane Kirby, who used to be the BBC bod in Paris, wrote an amusing and right on the nail piece about it:

A curiously French complaint

[MrGongGong]

So is "Heavy Legs" caused by Nuclear Power stations ?

I don't have it in a jar but I do have about 1,000 images to stitch into a movie or use in a sonification experiment

[Beef Oven]

This thread is morbid.

[MrGongGong]

This thread is morbid.

Cheer up matey out of darkness and all that ?

listening to "Of Ice and Movement"

[Budapest]

As medical science improves, of course more people die from cancer.

100% of us have to die of something.
In the bad old days most of us died relatively young, from malnourishment, infectious diseases - plague, cholera, typhoid, mumps, measles, tuberculosis etc.

In the last century in the west medicine has succeeded in 'saving' us from such as more and more treatments have been developed.

What is left to kill us will be the most intractable diseases - such as cancer.

So inevitably far more of us die from cancer now than did 100 years ago - this is the result of progress, not otherwise.

vinteuil, you and others are perhaps missing the point when it comes to Fukushima Daiichi: if reactor No.4 fuel pool loses water or collapses the fuel rods will catch fire. The resulting radioactive plume will spread around the northern hemisphere and kill a significant amount of the human race. This is not scaremongering, it's fact.

I think the meltdowns in reactors 1, 2 and 3 are a much bigger danger. This can only be hypothesis because no one in the outside world really knows what's going on at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant. All we get is what TEPCO and the Japanese government tell us. The TEPCO press releases do have a kind of gallows humour and are a joy to behold when it comes to reading between the lines. For instance, in the early days of the crisis, TEPCO came out with something like: "rays have been detected in the vicinity of reactor 4 building". Sun rays? Stingrays? or more likely gamma rays; ie, No.4 fuel pool lost its water and went criticle (gamma rays only occur when nuclear fission is taking place). Then, after that massive explosion at the reactor 3 building, TEPCO said that zirconium had been found in the grounds of the plant. Huh?! Zirconium is not found all over the place and it's used as the cladding for nuclear fuel rods. It seems that TEPCO were admitting to the fact that No.3 fuel pool had been ripped apart by the explosion (something you can clearly see on satellite photos) and the demolished fuel rods were scattered over a large area, fuel rods that contained a significant amount of plutonium, that has now been released into the environment.

If you're not worried about this, you should be.

[Bryn]

Re. the items recently linked to by Budapest, that on oncology by the professor of psychiatry was interesting, though he seemed to think the 'epidemic' had rather a lot to do with carcinogens other than radiation. The second, specifically dealt with Budapest's pet subject, and seemed well enough founded. In the third, the writer did not want to accuse the French of being a nation of hypochondriacs. Why not?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/1472674/National-mood-of-hypochondria-turns-France-into-the-sick-man-of-Europe.html

[Budapest]

This thread is morbid.

Monty Python - Always Look On The Bright Side of Life

[teamsaint]

and for a wonderful bit of music on a related subject

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3kQPJZPBN8

Who the hell DOES make them?

[MrGongGong]

and for a wonderful bit of music on a related subject

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3kQPJZPBN8

Who the hell DOES make them?

There's always this missile ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byDiILrNbM4

a timeless classic imv

[Bryn]

Here's a very level-headed presentation re. Unit 4 at Fukushima:

http://vimeo.com/41633459

The play button may take a few seconds to appear.

[Beef Oven]

Monty Python - Always Look On The Bright Side of Life

[vinteuil]

... budapest will probably think that the BBC, the WHO, and the UN are part of a conspiracy -

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-18181224

[Budapest]

... budapest will probably think that the BBC, the WHO, and the UN are part of a conspiracy -

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-18181224

Ok, maybe I am paranoid. I've seen the above BBC news piece. I've also now had a chance to read most of the WHO report.

Firstly, it's not radiation that's given off by the soil or air that is the biggest danger. The biggest danger is if you get this stuff inside your body. In that instance, low level radiation will kill you.

Let me return to plutonium, because it's a good example of this: a particle of plutonium does not give off enough radiation to penetrate the skin, yet if that particle of plutonium gets into your body it's goodnight Vienna (this is not only because of the radioactivity, but also because of the chemicle composition of plutonium: it's absolutely lethal to living things).

The WHO report (which you can find here) did look at ingested radiation. They used studies done by the Japanese and others in 2011. The Japanese tested foodstuffs and tap water for Iodine 131, Cesium 134 and Cesium 137 (page 31, Section 2.6.1. of the WHO report). The French and Germans did slightly wider testing. However, none of these tests looked for plutonium.

Plutonium is an alpha emitter and as such can not be detected by a bog standard geiger counter (which can only detect beta emitters and gamma rays). However, there is a bit of kit that you can add to a geiger counter that will allow it to detect alpha emitters.

So why didn't these tests which the WHO report uses look for plutonium, and why do I keep banging on about it..? It's because Fukushima Daiichi reactor No.3 used MOX fuel, which usually contains anywhere between 3% and 5% plutonium. There were 88 tons of spent fuel in the reactor 3 pool (see here). Let's go on a 4% plutonium figure, which means that there were roughly 3.5 tons of plutonium in that pool when it was destroyed by a massive explosion on 14th March 2011. Most of that plutonium was chucked up into the atmosphere (I won't use the usual scary numbers: I'm sure most folks are aware of how lethal plutonium is).

I'm afraid that for the time being I'm going to remain paranoid.