Torking Proply an' 'at

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

there has been some comment [unpleasant and from the Sun i believe about Roy H's use of spoken language ... btw he makes a nice distinction between hope and expect in that he did hope but did not expect to be called &c

in bagatelling around google and blogs the following also make their point about the open ended nature of language ... and the dead end of snobbery

[JFLL]

there has been some comment [unpleasant and from the Sun i believe about Roy H's use of spoken language ... btw he makes a nice distinction between hope and expect in that he did hope but did not expect to be called &c

in bagatelling around google and blogs the following also make their point about the open ended nature of language ... and the dead end of snobbery

The spipers seem to be failing to make a distinction between a speech impediment and what he actually says. He strikes me as rather articulate for a football manager, but maybe the Sun thinks Harry Redknapp should be our model.. Hodgson is said to know five languages, not surprising when you consider his experience abroad. I wonder how many of the Sun's reporters do?

[Serial_Apologist]

Speech impediment? A lot of kids are going to be at the mercy of bullies this day and forever more as a result of this crass headline. He's a Londoner isn't he? It's common (in the literal sense ) for us to pwonounce our Rs as Ws. It was one of the things they managed to electrocute out of me so I could take the role of Pwide in the 7 Deadly Sins aged 11.

[amateur51]

The spipers seem to be failing to make a distinction between a speech impediment and what he actually says. He strikes me as rather articulate for a football manager, but maybe the Sun thinks Harry Redknapp should be our model.. Hodgson is said to know five languages, not surprising when you consider his experience abroad. I wonder how many of the Sun's reporters do?

Dammit man, he's been seen on board areoplanes reading hard-backed novels

End of trivialisation as we know it

[Lateralthinking1]

Well, in my post earlier today I used both "expect" and "anticipate" to make one point. That point was that past England managers have been rubbish. The examples I provided when using those words were different from each other. The reader could have assumed identical meaning in my use of the two words or found different meanings. The essence of the argument would have been exactly the same. That rather makes any alleged pure difference between the meanings of the two words remote. At best it is meaningfully applicable only in some cases, and even then mostly for nuance, where other words are also being used.

I am not sure that I accept that the "w" for "r" is a speech impediment. In many people it is affectation. Predictably it emanates from the upper classes. William Whitelaw springs to mind as indeed does now Jeremy Peace of the Football Association. It is also in those who began life in ordinary places and had to adjust to new expectations with advancement. Roy Jenkins is a good example while Roy Hodgson and Trevor Brooking might well be others. Once acquired, it is a habit that is impossible to break.

I have a long-standing issue with posh people dropping the "e" in the word "geography". It is a similar affliction. These things tend to travel like wildfire, new ones arrive every year and unfortunately the nonsense tends to stick. 2010 was the year of "like". "He was like "do you think so?" and I was like "oh my god" and she was like "no way"" etc etc. 2011 brought us "went". "I went "you must be joking" and he went "oh no I'm not" and she went "you two always make me laugh". 2012 is the year of "get". Teenagers of all classes now walk into shops and when asked for their order say "can I get a ham salad please?" etc. The word is "have". It isn't "get" and like "weally" and "jography" it is only pure as a stance. Don't even mention that the "can" would be better as "may".

[Serial_Apologist]

Well, in my post earlier today I used both "expect" and "anticipate" to make one point. That point was that past England managers have been rubbish. The examples I provided when using those words were different from each other. The reader could have assumed identical meaning in my use of the two words or found different meanings. The essence of the argument would have been exactly the same. That rather makes any alleged pure difference between the meanings of the two words remote. At best it is meaningfully applicable only in some cases, and even then mostly for nuance, where other words are also being used.

I am not sure that I accept that the "w" for "r" is a speech impediment. In many people it is affectation. Predictably it emanates from the upper classes. William Whitelaw springs to mind as indeed does now Jeremy Peace of the Football Association. It is also in those who began life in ordinary places and had to adjust to new expectations with advancement. Roy Jenkins is a good example while Roy Hodgson and Trevor Brooking might well be others. Once acquired, it is a habit that is impossible to break.

I have a long-standing issue with posh people dropping the "e" in the word "geography". It is a similar affliction. These things tend to travel like wildfire, new ones arrive every year and unfortunately the nonsense tends to stick. 2010 was the year of "like". "He was like "do you think so?" and I was like "oh my god" and she was like "no way"" etc etc. 2011 brought us "went". "I went "you must be joking" and he went "oh no I'm not" and she went "you two always make me laugh". 2012 is the year of "get". Teenagers of all classes now walk into shops and when asked for their order say "can I get a ham salad please?" etc. The word is "have". It isn't "get" and like "weally" and "jography" it is only pure as a stance. Don't even mention that the "can" would be better as "may".

And thanks, Lat, for writing "different from"....

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

It hardly matters if the chosen England manager is the right person for the job. And Roy likes opera too.

However, when Breakfast TV and weather forecast presenters speak with a regional accent that even I as a Salford-born northerner find grating, perhaps political correctness is going too far. Stephanie McGovern, for example, gives us North-westerners a bad name. I can understand her, as I was brought up in an area where everyone spoke like that. But on television, it's cringeworthy.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

And thanks, Lat, for writing "different from"....

[Anna]

However, when Breakfast TV and weather forecast presenters speak with a regional accent that even I as a Salford-born northerner find grating, perhaps political correctness is going too far. Stephanie McGovern, for example, gives us North-westerners a bad name. I can understand her, as I was brought up in an area where everyone spoke like that. But on television, it's cringeworthy.

What a very odd point of view, are you wishing to go back to the days of RP? Nothing wrong with regional accents, I guess around 95% of the UK population have them, and John Humphrys, Huw Edwards, do they grate on you as well?

[Serial_Apologist]

What a very odd point of view, are you wishing to go back to the days of RP? Nothing wrong with regional accents, I guess around 95% of the UK population have them, and John Humphrys, Huw Edwards, do they grate on you as well?

Huw Edwards' Welshness is very muted; and John Humphrys' inaudible though. But I agree, Anna. Regional accents are authentic, whether broad or dilute, any insistence on what used to be called "BBC English" a genuflection to supposed middle class superiority.

[Anna]

Huw Edwards' Welshness is very muted; and John Humphrys' inaudible though. But I agree, Anna. Regional accents are authentic, whether broad or dilute, any insistence on what used to be called "BBC English" a genuflection to supposed middle class superiority.

Well, I can still hear John Humphry's Welshness! But, to disapprove of regional accents does smack of nobility v the serfs!

[Lateralthinking1]

It hardly matters if the chosen England manager is the right person for the job. And Roy likes opera too.

However, when Breakfast TV and weather forecast presenters speak with a regional accent that even I as a Salford-born northerner find grating, perhaps political correctness is going too far. Stephanie McGovern, for example, gives us North-westerners a bad name. I can understand her, as I was brought up in an area where everyone spoke like that. But on television, it's cringeworthy.

This is a very good point.

There was a time when there were two forms of Liverpudlian - 1. Liverpudlian and 2. Cilla Black. Now every regional accent is of the Cilla Black variety. It all took off with that continuity man on Channel 4 who gave us Geordie with four sugars and anabolic steroids.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

What a very odd point of view, are you wishing to go back to the days of RP? Nothing wrong with regional accents, I guess around 95% of the UK population have them, and John Humphrys, Huw Edwards, do they grate on you as well?

John Humphrys has only a slight regional accent. I think he would agree with me, and one of my favourite books is his "Lost for Words".
If "going back to the days of RP" meant presenters speaking decent English, then I would go with that. However, many speak bad English with a posh voice, which is probably worse, as the RP accent can suggest authority, thereby setting a bad example.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

... any insistence on what used to be called "BBC English" a genuflection to supposed middle class superiority.

No it isn't. It's just good manners to communicate effectively. If these means some refinement of accent, so be it.

[Anna]

No it isn't. It's just good manners to communicate effectively. If these means some refinement of accent, so be it.

Indeed, which is why you'll never get anyone from Birmingham or Norfolk reading the news .......