Posh Boys in trouble?

[handsomefortune]

bryn posted:

those who send their sons to Eton pay for the boarding, and basic teaching

granted, children may need 'protection money', - but ahinton, imv your interpretation deviates from what parents actually pay for. instead, you jump to what kids traditionally have to do, in order to protect themselves from predatory, abusive peers.

bawbies, naifs, schoolboys are useful to long term organisational strategy.

those with a humane political ideology are typically accused of being 'zealots', or 'old fashioned'. especially if they refuse financial incentives to change tack, perceived a threat.

[Bryn]

bryn posted:

those who send their sons to Eton pay for the boarding, and basic teaching

granted, children may need 'protection money', - but ahinton, imv your interpretation deviates from what parents actually pay for. instead, you jump to what kids traditionally have to do, in order to protect themselves from predatory, abusive peers.

bawbies, naifs, schoolboys are useful to long term organisational strategy.

those with a humane political ideology are typically accused of being 'zealots', or 'old fashioned'. especially if they refuse financial incentives to change tack, perceived a threat.

On this question of bullying, I am sure it goes on at Eton, just as it does in state schools, but I must say that though most days I see vast swathes of Eton students on their way between classes, and trying to catch up with a tutor after the daily chambers meetings, I have yet to encounter one looking in the least hang-dog, which does not tend to support your implied contention that bullying is rife there. Perhaps you are relying on rather outdated evidence?

[Mr Pee]

Perhaps you are relying on rather outdated evidence?

More likely not relying on any evidence whatsoever....

[handsomefortune]

implied contention that bullying is rife there.

where do i say that bryn? though tbh it wouldn't surprise me. (i shalln't quote family experience, as this topic can typically become like a (slightly odd) 'competition' in itself)!

i am influenced by a worried mum, in particular, about to send her son to an elite boarding school, as featured in the 'seven up' series. also, a co participant in the series, a mum who categorically wanted her children with her, determined that day school, not boarding was the objective. presumably i'm about 5 yrs out of date ...but look forward to 'world in action' this weekend, 7yrs on from the last broadcast, and incidentally bang up to date.

if you should choose to watch the programme, do look out for bruce btw: parents divorced, bullied as a boarder, yet will now have sent his own children away, to risk repeating the same isolation, and possibly bullying, he complained bitterly of (earlier in the series). typically, the generational cycles seem quite illogical, and yet repetitive in this sense. as well as counter to contemporary times, which place great emphasis on 'emotional intelligence' and 'good parenting'. yet both bullying and emotional neglect continue in all sorts of schools and communities, often excused by (imv a lot of flannel) about 'competition'. eg being 'spirited', 'resilient', 'independent', and 'a natural leader' etc.

perhaps 'posh boys' don't tend to get 'in trouble' - things need to be really extreme for any dysfunction to be acknowledged! seemingly, it's 'independence' in every sense, which is the very incentive for aspiration initially, as illustrated by the series.

I have yet to encounter one looking in the least hang-dog,

as a rule, in order to avoid being a victim of more bullying, it's best not to look 'hang dog'....regardless of which school we're discussing. typically, this is precisely why bullying is often difficult to detect, or prevent.

outdated evidence?

i really hope so! but then you state I am sure it goes on at Eton, just as it does in state schools, which at least suggests you have a realistic approach. however, i think there are typically a wide variety, different types of bullying, particular to specific environments.

i am fascinated by the solicitor featured in the series, who acknowledges that the competition now, in comparison to when he was at public school, and oxbridge, is much stiffer. what 'increased competition' produces, in terms of 'passable behavior' is an interesting subject, in numerous contexts. for instance, in society generally. as well as in government, at work, and within education. particularly in the current context of economic recession, led by what is widely perceived as a bungling elite. ultimately, a great shame both for the image of aspiration, and all privileged persons who have achieved great things for society, rather than being perceived 'bungling and selfish'.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

Mr Cameron singled out human rights law, reform of workplace rights and support for marriage as areas where Tory principles are being held in check but urged senior MPs growing tired of coalition not to ‘waste’ the next three years.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz1uN1BK0Ex

who says the LibDems aren't a nuisance?

[Serial_Apologist]

implied contention that bullying is rife there.

where do i say that bryn? though tbh it wouldn't surprise me. (i shalln't quote family experience, as this topic can typically become like a (slightly odd) 'competition' in itself)!

i am influenced by a worried mum, in particular, about to send her son to an elite boarding school, as featured in the 'seven up' series. also, a co participant in the series, a mum who categorically wanted her children with her, determined that day school, not boarding was the objective. presumably i'm about 5 yrs out of date ...but look forward to 'world in action' this weekend, 7yrs on from the last broadcast, and incidentally bang up to date.

if you should choose to watch the programme, do look out for bruce btw: parents divorced, bullied as a boarder, yet will now have sent his own children away, to risk repeating the same isolation, and possibly bullying, he complained bitterly of (earlier in the series). typically, the generational cycles seem quite illogical, and yet repetitive in this sense. as well as counter to contemporary times, which place great emphasis on 'emotional intelligence' and 'good parenting'. yet both bullying and emotional neglect continue in all sorts of schools and communities, often excused by (imv a lot of flannel) about 'competition'. eg being 'spirited', 'resilient', 'independent', and 'a natural leader' etc.

perhaps 'posh boys' don't tend to get 'in trouble' - things need to be really extreme for any dysfunction to be acknowledged! seemingly, it's 'independence' in every sense, which is the very incentive for aspiration initially, as illustrated by the series.

I have yet to encounter one looking in the least hang-dog,

as a rule, in order to avoid being a victim of more bullying, it's best not to look 'hang dog'....regardless of which school we're discussing. typically, this is precisely why bullying is often difficult to detect, or prevent.

outdated evidence?

i really hope so! but then you state I am sure it goes on at Eton, just as it does in state schools, which at least suggests you have a realistic approach. however, i think there are typically a wide variety, different types of bullying, particular to specific environments.

i am fascinated by the solicitor featured in the series, who acknowledges that the competition now, in comparison to when he was at public school, and oxbridge, is much stiffer. what 'increased competition' produces, in terms of 'passable behavior' is an interesting subject, in numerous contexts. for instance, in society generally. as well as in government, at work, and within education. particularly in the current context of economic recession, led by what is widely perceived as a bungling elite. ultimately, a great shame both for the image of aspiration, and all privileged persons who have achieved great things for society, rather than being perceived 'bungling and selfish'.

From what I remember from bullying at boarding school, at age 15 your thinking and sense of anticipation operates short-term. So, in-between classes, you're relaxed, in the comparative security of pupils making their way to the next classes, little chance of trouble for would-be troublemakers keen not to be marked down late; the bullying, if it happens, will come later - plenty of time for the butterflies; at least it's not gonna happen now.

Boulstered by the moral blackmail of knowing the sacrifice our parents were making, we were "raised" with an image held high before us of connections and the promise of status should we get through the character-building bullying, the compulsory sports and the privations; and in "chapel" there was always the daily prayer lifeline to the One exemplar we could rely on when all about seemed against us, of course.

These places may today be more materially comfortable to go through - fagging abolished, toilets with doors on for examples - but they are still signed up by elders and betters who see their offspring as likewise naturally privileged and to be advantaged over their peers, physically and mentally insulated from the lives of the surrounding populace who in my day were seen as sources of potential infection, "out of bounds" and known as "the mushtis". This was what made Britain great.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

in Britain one can be bullied on the street in school and most notably but least discussed at work by employers and managers ... bullying goes on all over the place and is not a prerogative of the 'public school' system ..... on the other hand privilege is ....

and my enemy's enemy is more often an enema than a pal ...

[Bryn]

From what I remember from bullying at boarding school, at age 15 your thinking and sense of anticipation operates short-term. So, in-between classes, you're relaxed, in the comparative security of pupils making their way to the next classes, little chance of trouble for would-be troublemakers keen not to be marked down late; the bullying, if it happens, will come later - plenty of time for the butterflies; at least it's not gonna happen now.

Boulstered by the moral blackmail of knowing the sacrifice our parents were making, we were "raised" with an image held high before us of connections and the promise of status should we get through the character-building bullying, the compulsory sports and the privations; and in "chapel" there was always the daily prayer lifeline to the One exemplar we could rely on when all about seemed against us, of course.

These places may today be more materially comfortable to go through - fagging abolished, toilets with doors on for examples - but they are still signed up by elders and betters who see their offspring as likewise naturally privileged and to be advantaged over their peers, physically and mentally insulated from the lives of the surrounding populace who in my day were seen as sources of potential infection, "out of bounds" and known as "the mushtis". This was what made Britain great.

That all seems to make sense to me. I would just add that the Ofsted Final Report on Eton in 2009 reported positively on the way the issue of bullying was approached at the college:

http://www.etoncollege.com/userfiles/file/Ofsted%20Final%20Report%202009.pdf

Just search the document of "bullying".

[ahinton]

bryn posted:

those who send their sons to Eton pay for the boarding, and basic teaching

granted, children may need 'protection money', - but ahinton, imv your interpretation deviates from what parents actually pay for. instead, you jump to what kids traditionally have to do, in order to protect themselves from predatory, abusive peers.

Pardon? Where?

[handsomefortune]

but least discussed at work by employers and managers ... bullying goes on all over the place and is not a prerogative of the 'public school' system ..... on the other hand privilege is ....

imv it's not discussed, as proper discussion would lessen the unspoken threat. the threat is useful in itself.

unions didn't help dominant power structures , ownership, and management being a form of privilege) in this context. so it was/is important that generalised discussion of all unions were/are mainly negative, usually emphasising inner turmoil, and not the greater leverage of management, and ownership, in having a frightened, or preferably petrified work force.

when is there ever a tv programme about 'a great employment tribunal' that really paid off, in terms of justice at work? (not to mention stress to an employee, profit for legal representation) etc, and yet these things happen to friends, and colleagues ime.

the recent beeb 2 doc of 'the seventies' annoyed me, in that it suggested that 'the miners became torys, copying heath's aspirations'. the fact that health and safety was becoming an increasing issue in other forms of employment and environments, was skipped over completely! though there may have been tory miners - i suspect they were hardly in the majority. the footage of the miners in hairnets (of all the safety measures in such dangerous working conditions, but hidden below the earth's surface, ....and how divisive of management to divide existing tensions about hair length, exploiting age divisions) was all very telling imo! especially the presenter having stressed the collective ideals that made the wartime generation cohesive enough to work, fight and win ww2.

i get the distinct impression that the division and threat is perceived necessary, to stimulate and assist fine tuning within power structures at work.

likewise, within education, privileged children in 'seven up' would hardly be at public schools, if the threat of the 'rabble' 'mushtis' or 'riff raff' didn't exist! also if their parents weren't divorcing, or had perhaps doubted their confidence in their own abilities at parenting effectively (for whatever reason), apparently often remedied in wanting offspring to board, is what comes over very stongly in the 'seven up' series. women, in particular, do not want this for their children.

it's rare that seven yr olds actually want to cram at prep school, go to a grammer, independent or public school themselves imo. at 7yrs they have no idea what they want. (both my brother and dad wanted to hang out with mum....apparently 'wet'). the series shows that at seven yrs the boys are like micro versions of their parents' objectives, what ever they are. the 'mushtis' is a continuing theme in the 1960s part of the tv series, hilarious but scarey revelations about 'their' plans and objectives in life, which they learn to temper, as times change! it's in the childrens' dialogue, for instance, 'if the mushtis join their class, they may get out of control,school masters would be in trouble' was telling.

even within their privileged classes at elite establishments, the kids are anxious to suggest 'brown should be thrown out of their house, because he gets minuses' which imv reflects precisely the sort of competitive banter that their parents approve of...rather than anything else. i suspect a child from a different background wouldn't necessary gain the same levels of parental approval for saying 'george brown was naughty at school because he didn't turn up today'. there's always the chance that less privileged parents would be skeptical as to why their child was interested in point scoring about another child, especially at 7yrs. it's just the fees paid that holds much of the glue in place, dictates behavior and expectations, regardless of the child's actual personal strengths, and interests.

[handsomefortune]

your post # 296 ahinton.

[handsomefortune]

Just search the document of "bullying".

is it pge 6, or is there another section in the ofsted report bryn?

[Serial_Apologist]

but least discussed at work by employers and managers ... bullying goes on all over the place and is not a prerogative of the 'public school' system ..... on the other hand privilege is ....

imv it's not discussed, as proper discussion would lessen the unspoken threat. the threat is useful in itself.

unions didn't help dominant power structures , ownership, and management being a form of privilege) in this context. so it was/is important that generalised discussion of all unions were/are mainly negative, usually emphasising inner turmoil, and not the greater leverage of management, and ownership, in having a frightened, or preferably petrified work force.

when is there ever a tv programme about 'a great employment tribunal' that really paid off, in terms of justice at work? (not to mention stress to an employee, profit for legal representation) etc, and yet these things happen to friends, and colleagues ime.

Back in its enlightened early days, Channel 4 had a programme titled "Union World", which examined and went well into the internal politics and power struggles of the labour movement; but it then dropped it, along with the channel's phone-in street service equivalent of the Beeb's "Feedback", (then under a different name iirc), on grounds of union matters being "boring" to the general viewer, and the call boxes abused.

Although I don't recall in what context, I do remember the BBC being challenged on air over not having taken up its public broadcasting duty to assume responsibility for trade union news coverage - something it no longer did on programes such as Panorama - and the Beeb stating that such matters were now dispersed under under different news items in which union matters were treated as ancillary. As a consequence, a) union news is something which only ever comes up when there's a dispute on, or the question of that evil thing the union block vote arises in relation to the election of a Labour Party leader; and, b) the general public remains ideologically in blighted ignorance of what trade unions are for, let alone their history and role within the labour movement; and it takes a certain level of political consciousness to understand why this is the case.

[Serial_Apologist]

Just search the document of "bullying".

is it pge 6, or is there another section in the ofsted report bryn?

Its a short distance into the report, handsome, and comes under "Pupil Safety" or some such heading.

[handsomefortune]

calum da jazbo - dorries's wiki link is totally laughable. i believe she is a blatant opportunist, and only 'bunglers' would associate with someone with such a damning track record. she's hardly 'a credit to the working classes', or the north! which returns to the central point that class aside, ideally people should be self regulating, and self respect valued more. rather than what a person 'can get away with'.

serial apologist,
i might have known there was media coverage at one point on ch 4 and the beeb!

a certain level of political consciousness i suspect might return (as a vague memory, or anecdotal conversation) for many people during this 'recession' (or whatever it is that is driving current returns to victorian working environments)! 'telephone abuse' sounds quite comic, in comparison to general hardship. though the red boxes hardly exist any longer, people will be charged crazy amounts, beat up their own mobile phones instead presumably. none of which will get much of a mention in the media!

whereas the plight of shareholders seems to get a look in within mainstream media, with the aviva climb down, and apparently william hill both experiencing share holder revolt..... i suspect that william hill, and aviva ceo's had some outstanding fees to pay off ...so went for a banker style 'withdrawal of as much lolly as poss', mirroring opportunist behavior of 'crims' at a cash point having stolen someone's plastic card. essentially, returning home from school to a dad under extreme £ pressure is never ideal for any family. (and returning home to dorries.... even worse )