Pedants' Paradise

[Serial_Apologist]

Aha! Many thanks, vints, Bryn and ferney.

[french frank]

(I don't recall encountering it before this week, either.)

It's been around more or less since the beginning of the Mueller investigation. Trump furious because he thought Sessions was 'his man' and could be relied upon to do his master's bidding. Sessions, having been a Trump loyalist, went native and became an honourable man …

I hadn't realised the word was mainly U.S. I suppose it's etymologically related to excuse.

Just remembered: Trump said he wouldn't have appointed him as AG if he'd known Sessions was going to do that. Um …

[Pabmusic]

It's been around more or less since the beginning of the Mueller investigation. Trump furious because he thought Sessions was 'his man' and could be relied upon to do his master's bidding. Sessions, having been a Trump loyalist, went native and became an honourable man …

I hadn't realised the word was mainly U.S. I suppose it's etymologically related to excuse.

Just remembered: Trump said he wouldn't have appointed him as AG if he'd known Sessions was going to do that. Um …

I imagine it's ultimately from the same root as 'recusant', which was well known in Elizabeth's day. Seemingly from the Latin recusant - the sate of 'refusing,’ from the verb recusare. It denoted those who clung on to Catholicism. Under Elizabeth's rule they generally had to pay a fine annually.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I imagine it's ultimately from the same root as 'recusant', which was well known in Elizabeth's day. Seemingly from the Latin recusant - the sate of 'refusing,’ from the verb recusare. It denoted those who clung on to Catholicism. Under Elizabeth's rule they generally had to pay a fine annually.

Which they had to give to the Recuse Collector.

[Pabmusic]

Which they had to give to the Recuse Collector.

Only if they had the right bins.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Only if they had the right bins.

Yes - Venial Bins and Mortal Bins.

[Pabmusic]

Yes - Venial Bins and Mortal Bins.

But never a cardinal bin (I suppose they'd be red).

[verismissimo]

I believe that recuse/recusant is an example of usage in Britain dying out, but being kept current in the USA. There are lots of examples of this, and I expect that one will come to mind in due course …

[Pabmusic]

I believe that recuse/recusant is an example of usage in Britain dying out, but being kept current in the USA. There are lots of examples of this, and I expect that one will come to mind in due course …

Fall = autumn?; "I loaned her some money"?; normalcy?; "zee" (for zed)?; gotten?

[gurnemanz]

Fall = autumn?; "I loaned her some money"?; normalcy?; "zee" (for zed)?; gotten?

I couldn't really object to "gotten" which is the historical past participle which the British still use in the derivatives "forgotten" and "begotten" and the fossilised form "ill-gotten".

There again, I still remember a quote from Shakespeare's Antony and Cleo, umpteen years after learning it for A Level, in which Enobarbus sarcastically observes:
"That truth should be silent I had almost forgot".

[kernelbogey]

I believe that recuse/recusant is an example of usage in Britain dying out, but being kept current in the USA. There are lots of examples of this, and I expect that one will come to mind in due course …

Aha! Synchronicity!

I am reading (in some cases rereading) Patrick O'Brian's novels about Captain Jack Aubrey RN and his surgeon, friend (and spy for the British) Dr Stephen Maturin, set in the (somewhat extended by O'Brian) Napoleonic Wars, i.e. circa 1800.

I have just come across this exchange between Stephen and his wife, talking about Jack:

Stephen: [Wray] is now acting as second secretary to the Admiralty during Sir John Barrow's illness. But he was in the Treasury some time ago, when Jack told him he cheated at cards, told him quite openly, in his candid naval way, at Willis's rooms.
Diana: Good God Stephen!You never told me... Did he call Jack out?
Stephen: He did not. I believe he is taking a safer course.
-The Ionian Mission, p 17

From my earlier reading, I know that what Diana means by 'Did he call Jack out?' is Did Wray challenge Jack to a duel to preserve his honour after a public insult?

O'Brian has a reputation for authenticity in his descriptions of historical naval life and action; I imagine that his use of historic colloquial language to be equally soundly based.

Now, we hear calling X out today - and I think this is relatively new, post #metoo - being used in the following manner (my made up words): 'He misled us on B****t, and I was pleased that the interviewer called him out on that'; or 'He's had a reputation for creepy behaviour with employees, and finally she's called him out publicly on his behaviour'.

I have not checked in the dictionaries but I find this fascinating.

[french frank]

I imagine it's ultimately from the same root as 'recusant' …

I'd forgotten that. It [recusant] would still be current among historians as a description of Catholics in earlier times who were potentially subject to execution. Apparently the -cusare part is from causa which I'm not entirely sure that I follow.

[Pulcinella]

I'd forgotten that. It [recusant] would still be current among historians as a description of Catholics in earlier times who were potentially subject to execution. Apparently the -cusare part is from causa which I'm not entirely sure that I follow.

The most renowned recusant from our (R3 Forum) perspective might well be William Byrd.

[french frank]

The most renowned recusant from our (R3 Forum) perspective might well be William Byrd.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I couldn't really object to "gotten" which is the historical past participle which the British still use in the derivatives "forgotten" and "begotten" and the fossilised form "ill-gotten".

There again, I still remember a quote from Shakespeare's Antony and Cleo, umpteen years after learning it for A Level, in which Enobarbus sarcastically observes:
"That truth should be silent I had almost forgot".

... to say nothing of hobby-horses.