Pedants' Paradise

[oddoneout]

Sounds like the average Breakfast time chez ferney!

(But it is terrible, risible use of English - where on earth did you encounter it, oddy?)

In a somewhat indifferent novel which wasn't quite bad enough to abandon completely , and there was some unintentional entertainment in the storyline's clunky 'twists and turns'. It was quite good at emptying my mind before bed. The writer is English and the story is set in rural Devon so the occasional use of phrases and words that I'm more used to seeing in american novels were odd; I'm not convinced that 'fratboy' is a term much used by Devon natives even those of the younger generation, and the 'she lay her hand on...' type construction is very much american- although increasingly appearing in english writing.

[french frank]

I'm sure this point has cropped up before, but I spotted in a newspaper today the phrase "the letter's signees". I'm quite willing to accept that 'signees' is indeed shorter than 'signatories', but why not 'signers' (cf 'attendees' for attenders')?

[In this case, 'signer' means something else. But why the need to change from signatory? Do people always have buses to catch imminently and can't spare the time?]

[oddoneout]

I'm sure this point has cropped up before, but I spotted in a newspaper today the phrase "the letter's signees". I'm quite willing to accept that 'signees' is indeed shorter than 'signatories', but why not 'signers' (cf 'attendees' for attenders')?

[In this case, 'signer' means something else. But why the need to change from signatory? Do people always have buses to catch imminently and can't spare the time?]

Sometimes such things come into being as a result of ignorance of the correct term, but in some cases I wonder if it's the result of being more 'accessible' - not using unfamiliar legal-style terminology. Trouble is, such attempts at simplification sometimes end up making things more difficult.
As you say 'signer' has a different meaning in other contexts, and may in fact be more familiar in these disability aware times in that usage - which isn't terribly helpful.

[LeMartinPecheur]

(cf 'attendees' for attenders')

I've just caught John leCarre in a 2017 book using 'attendees', supposedly in a secret service document dating from c.1960.

Surely not?!?

Unless of course it turns out to be the tiny slip that later in the book proves this document fake? I haven't finished it yet so please don't tell me if you know.

Or do I mean Smiley??

[french frank]

Sometimes such things come into being as a result of ignorance of the correct term, but in some cases I wonder if it's the result of being more 'accessible' - not using unfamiliar legal-style terminology.

I think we came to the conclusion earlier that 'attendee' was thought to be analogous with 'employee', though where 'employer' is also standard usage and used when needed. Why 'attendee'?

Interesting: the OED gives the first example (Webster) of attendee as 1961; but signee dates back to 1866 (the only example that's British).

I find this distinction: "As nouns the difference between signee and signatory is that signee is one who signs a contract, especially in athletic contexts while signatory is one who signs or has signed something."

Unless of course it turns out to be the tiny slip that later in the book proves this document fake? I haven't finished it yet so please don't tell me if you know.

Or do I mean Smiley??

Ho ho - perhaps you've stumbled on something, Sherlock

[oddoneout]

I think we came to the conclusion earlier that 'attendee' was thought to be analogous with 'employee', though where 'employer' is also standard usage and used when needed. Why 'attendee'?

Interesting: the OED gives the first example (Webster) of attendee as 1961; but signee dates back to 1866 (the only example that's British).

I find this distinction: "As nouns the difference between signee and signatory is that signee is one who signs a contract, especially in athletic contexts while signatory is one who signs or has signed something."





Ho ho - perhaps you've stumbled on something, Sherlock

I suppose that someone who signs a sports contract is doing so for themselves as the individual involved and named on that contract, whereas a signatory will be acting on behalf of another body - treaties, legal instruments, etc?
The 'distinction' you quote does rather give the impression of something missing from the end of the sentence though.

[Bryn]

To me, "signee" brings mind images of Kafka's Penal Colony, much as "standee", to me, suggests someone stood upon.

[french frank]

To me, "signee" brings mind images of Kafka's Penal Colony, much as "standee", to me, suggests someone stood upon.

The OED's article on the suffix -ee doesn't include this use.

[Serial_Apologist]

The OED's article on the suffix -ee doesn't include this use.

Funny that - I'd always assumed "-ee" to indicate "recipience", eg "Payee" on cheques, "employee", as already mentioned.

[Bryn]

The OED's article on the suffix -ee doesn't include this use.

Paywall.

[french frank]

Paywall.

Never thought of that. Don't you have a library card or does Braccan Heal Municipal Library not have a subscription

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Never thought of that. Don't you have a library card or does Braccan Heal Municipal Library not have a subscription

Presumably, they'd have to be Paywallees?

[Bryn]

Never thought of that. Don't you have a library card or does Braccan Heal Municipal Library not have a subscription

I have not visited the local library for over a decade. They rarely had either books, magazines or recordings I wanted. I did join that in Windsor as someone who worked in the borough, but that facility ended. I must renew my membership of the Teignmouth library. I was very impressed, around a decade ago, when I was advised that as someone holidaying in the area I was fully entitled to join.

[french frank]

I have not visited the local library for over a decade. They rarely had either books, magazines or recordings I wanted. I did join that in Windsor as someone who worked in the borough, but that facility ended. I must renew my membership of the Teignmouth library. I was very impressed, around a decade ago, when I was advised that as someone holidaying in the area I was fully entitled to join.

Like you, I don't find much on site to interest me (though I do occasionally order books on InterLibrary Loan. But the Central Library subscribes to several online resources which are worth having a card for (sadly no longer the Online Grove they said not enough people consulted it so they gave up the subscription). Costs nothing.

[Bryn]

Like you, I don't find much on site to interest me (though I do occasionally order books on InterLibrary Loan. But the Central Library subscribes to several online resources which are worth having a card for (sadly no longer the Online Grove they said not enough people consulted it so they gave up the subscription). Costs nothing.

I will investigate. Apart from anything else I could turn the heating right down at home while visiting the library.