Pedants' Paradise

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

A Pedant has moved the posts about the pronunciation of "electoral" to the "Pronunciation Watch" Thread.

[subcontrabass]

"Less than 10 % of burglaries were solved by the police last year".

This was the heading to a discussion on The Wright Stuff this morning. Matthew Wright immediately said that the wording should have been "fewer", not "less", and nobody disagreed. But is this correct? We're talking a figure here, rather than what that figure stands for. We wouldn't say that the number 9 is fewer than the number 10, would we? What do others think?

I think this one could go either way depending on how "10% of burglaries" is understood. If the focus of reference is the percentage, then "less" would be correct. If the focus is the number of burglaries, then "fewer" would be correct.

[Lat-Literal]

A Pedant has moved the posts about the pronunciation of "electoral" to the "Pronunciation Watch" Thread.

You are quite right to do so.

[jean]

[french frank]

We wouldn't say that the number 9 is fewer than the number 10, would we?

No, but 'the number 9' is here followed by a singular verb. So if you want to say 'less' rather than 'fewer than 10% of burglaries', shouldn't you say "Less than 10% of burglaries WAS solved by the police last year". Pedantically. Though what seems to me to be a perfectly logical 'rule' seems to be going the same way as the, less logical, not splitting infinitives or ending sentences with a preposition.

[jean]

...if you want to say 'less' rather than 'fewer than 10% of burglaries', shouldn't you say "Less than 10% of burglaries WAS solved by the police last year"....

I disagree - even if we regard the 'less-than-10%' as a quantity rather than an enumeration of separate incidents, it is surely relevant that a mass noun can be followed by a plural verb?

(Anyway, less than 10% of burglaries WAS solved just sounds wrong!)

[french frank]

(Anyway, less than 10% of burglaries WAS solved just sounds wrong!)

Exactly. But to me 'fewer than 10% of burglaries were' sounds perfectly correct. As scb said, both may be considered acceptable. SA's point was that 'fewer' would be wrong here. I disagree.

[Flay]

Just posted on the BBC R3 Facebook page :

Practice DOES make perfect, memorising music is hard and it's completely normal to not want to practice.

[vinteuil]

Just posted on the BBC R3 Facebook page :

Practice DOES make perfect, memorising music is hard and it's completely normal to not want to practice.

... I'm assuming it's the spelling 'to practice' to which you object. The split infinitive is of course fine; m'self I wd probably prefer the spelling 'memorizing' but am happy to accept 'memorising'.




.

[gurnemanz]

We wouldn't say that the number 9 is fewer than the number 10, would we? What do others think?

A pedant or hair-splitter might comment that a number per se is not just used to refer to countable objects but also as unique reference to a house, hotel room, lottery ticket or indeed classical music radio station or to ranking position. As such it cannot, speaking generally, be said to be either "fewer" or or "less" than another number - only lower or smaller. "My room number is less than my yours" would be invalid.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

A pedant or hair-splitter might comment that a number per se is not just used to refer to countable objects but also as unique reference to a house, hotel room, lottery ticket or indeed classical music radio station or to ranking position. As such it cannot, speaking generally, be said to be either "fewer" or or "less" than another number - only lower or smaller. "My room number is less than my yours" would be invalid.

[Serial_Apologist]

A pedant or hair-splitter might comment that a number per se is not just used to refer to countable objects but also as unique reference to a house, hotel room, lottery ticket or indeed classical music radio station or to ranking position. As such it cannot, speaking generally, be said to be either "fewer" or or "less" than another number - only lower or smaller. "My room number is less than my yours" would be invalid.

That'll teach me!

[verismissimo]

Two separate emails in today flagging up 'humanities' events at Oxford University:

1. featured a talk by an American 'playwrite', and

2. announced that 'theatre was the new media of Elizabethan London'.

Hmmm.

[Padraig]

Two separate emails in today flagging up 'humanities' events at Oxford University:

1. featured a talk by an American 'playwrite', and

2. announced that 'theatre was the new media of Elizabethan London'.

Hmmm.

Hmmm

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

On a completely different topic, I've been in two choirs that have sung William H. Harris's Faire is the Heaven. A powerful piece in many ways, but one thing niggles.

There's a line: "And those eternal burning Serafins". I'm uncertain as to what this is referring. One Seraph; two Seraphim.

Perhaps "Seraphins are the aquatic equivalent. However, I notice that some eminent choirs (heard on YouTube), do "correct" the word.