Pedants' Paradise

[Lat-Literal]

This came up in a language tutorial when I was in Scotland, and one student was definite that she did pronounce the d. It's something I've often thought about and tried to replicate. dn is a tricky combination, because d and n are both dental consonants, aren't they. The d could be almost a glottal stop before the n which doesn't sound as a true consonant but 'feels' like one.

Isn't the "in Scotland" key here?

Specifically, "in the north of Scotland".

A footnote on moment'rily - my instinct suggests that here the upper middle classes are right and I am wrong - but a real pet hate of mine is their "jography".

That's rather my view, too.

The very poshest pronunciations often make a feature of omitting syllables altogether. I remember observing a TEFL lesson where the student teacher spent ages trying to elicit veg'table without the e. I wouldn't have bothered!

The teacher would not have enjoyed Brian Wilson's song "Vegetables" in which there is a definite "e" and a long "a".

American - or just Brian?

[Pulcinella]

Does anybody pronounce the first d in Wednesday?

You're not even supposed to!

The OED says:

Pronunciation: Brit. /ˈwɛnzdeɪ/, /ˈwɛnzdi/.

Who cares about supposed!
I do, with a pronunciation (don't do phonetics) something like Weddunsday.
And I'm from Liverpool, remember.

[Lat-Literal]

Who cares about supposed!
I do, with a pronunciation (don't do phonetics) something like Weddunsday.
And I'm from Liverpool, remember.

Whereas if you came from the Great Wen, as I do, it would be Wensday.

As a matter of interest, who decides where stresses should be placed?

Why is a tabernacle not a ta-burnacle?

[Bryn]

I recall a Private Eye Christmas flexidisc on which Edward Heath was taken to task re. his pronunciation of 'hisstree'.

[Padraig]

1 I say Wednesday. I also say Haydn. I don't find it difficult.

2 I have to remark that there is a lack of consistency concerning the use of dictionary references to support a point of view. With the exception of Pulcinella, no one challenged the authority of the OED reference on the pronunciation of Wednesday. Sauce for the goose etc.

[kernelbogey]

[...] I'm sure that many of us might come out with something like "ameliate" when talking fast in an informal conversational situation, when precise enunciation of all syllables often goes out of the window. This is a typical feature of spoken English, which is a a stress-timed language, i.e. longer polysyllabic words are squeezed into the same space as monosyllabic ones with the same syntactic function in order not to change the basic sentence rhythm[....]

There is also an increasing tendency in the speech of the young to elide syllables. I can't cite examples now, but when I hear people in their twenties, for example, talking rapidly on radio or tv, there is a general compression of polysyllables in the manner highlighted by Gurnmanz .

In line with the tendency for my children's generation and their followers to abbreviate all first names if possible to a single syllable (Chris, Sue etc) many words are morphing into text speak. People say 'How about going in Jan?', '...meeting on Weds?', for example, and text-abbreviations like 'deffo' for definitely are drifting into spoken discourse.

My hunch is that some of these changes will remain.

[french frank]

1 I say Wednesday. I also say Haydn. I don't find it difficult.

Haydn is easy because it becomes two syllables, separating the d and n. Lat may well be right about Scotland/'Gaelic' regions, then, about Wednesday.

2 I have to remark that there is a lack of consistency concerning the use of dictionary references to support a point of view. With the exception of Pulcinella, no one challenged the authority of the OED reference on the pronunciation of Wednesday. Sauce for the goose etc.

Having mentioned d+n, I looked up the word sandwich (n+d). I don't pronounce the d, though the OED suggests that I do.

[Lat-Literal]

Can we return to the matter of "saze" for "says". There is a radio presenter who is pretty good but he will persist with this one. He is, I think, from Inverness not that he has a strong accent so is this also a Scottish/"Gaelic" pronunciation or personal idiosyncrasy? I have heard other people saying it and wasn't aware that it was especially regional but it could be.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Can we return to the matter of "saze" for "says". There is a radio presenter who is pretty good but he will persist with this one. He is, I think, from Inverness not that he has a strong accent so is this also a Scottish/"Gaelic" pronunciation or personal idiosyncrasy? I have heard other people saying it and wasn't aware that it was especially regional but it could be.

The correct pronunciation, of course, is "sez".

[Lat-Literal]

The correct pronunciation, of course, is "sez".

Indeed.

According to Dawson, "Sez Les".

[vinteuil]

Having mentioned d+n, I looked up the word sandwich (n+d). I don't pronounce the d, though the OED suggests that I do.

.. surely it's "samwidge".


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[french frank]

.. surely it's "samwidge".


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Or sangwidge in some parlances.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Indeed.
According to Dawson, "Sez Les".

[vinteuil]

.. surely it's "samwidge".


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... as also "Sambanks" for Sandbanks - and of course we have even changed the spelling to reflect the pronunciation of "and per se and" as "ampersand" ...


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[Sir Velo]

.. surely it's "samwidge".


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Sammidge, shorely?