Pedants' Paradise

[jean]

Considering the interest in semocolons evidenced here, I am disappointed that no-one else shares my outrage at what is being inflicted on primary school children. Here's the link I posted earlier.



'The child clearly knows where a semi colon goes and what one is but has put the dot too high' and is therefore marked wrong!

[Serial_Apologist]

I think I would have put a dash in there...

[jean]

You could, of course. But since a semicolon was what was asked for in this exercise., that really would have been wrong.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I think I would have put a dash in there...

Well, yes - given the attitude of George Orwell, Kurt Vonnegut, and others towards the semi-colon, I think it is outrageous that children, who have used the symbol correctly, should be penalised because of their flawed "Artwork".

http://www.medlinguistics.com/EnigmaticSemicolon.asp

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

You could, of course. But since a semicolon was what was asked for in this exercise., that really would have been wrong.

[french frank]

Yes, it is wrong when it gets down to an examiners' marking scheme and what is being marked right and wrong. But teaching 10/11-year-olds how to write a semi-colon, and where to place it seems necessary.

I think I would have put a dash in there...

I think a colon would have been better as it creates a more meaningful relationship between the two clauses: the second elaborates on the first.

[P. G. Tipps]

I think a colon would have been better as it creates a more meaningful relationship between the two clauses: the second elaborates on the first.

That's all very well but, personally, I would have used a suspension point ... and, I readily concede, not for the first time.

[jean]

Well, yes - given the attitude of George Orwell, Kurt Vonnegut, and others towards the semi-colon, I think it is outrageous that children, who have used the symbol correctly, should be penalised because of their flawed "Artwork".

http://www.medlinguistics.com/EnigmaticSemicolon.asp

Interesting article. I rather like the things (in spite of occasional bizarreries I've been guilty of) but I know that many academic linguists, such as Jean Aitchison, would get rid of them altogether.

Of course if you tell a child to insert a semicolon somewhere in a sentence and then give them a sentence where there is only one place where you could posiibly put any punctuation, what criterion can you apply to distinguish between the answers you get except a completely irrelevant assessment of the artwork?

[jean]

I would have used a suspension point ...

There's no such thing. They only exist in the plural, as you have just demonstrated.

[french frank]

Interesting article. I rather like the things (in spite of occasional bizarreries I've been guilty of) but I know that many academic linguists, such as Jean Aitchison, would get rid of them altogether.

Strange. Almost all the examples of the different uses of the semi-colon are where I would use a colon.

[P. G. Tipps]

There's no such thing. They only exist in the plural, as you have just demonstrated.

Oh, forgive me, but there is such a thing! One can perfectly correctly refer to a three-dot suspension point in the singular but if one wishes to be outrageously pedantic one can insist on the use of the plural instead.

However, logic is very much on the side of the former as only one pause (suspension) is indicated, not three!

https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/63374/name-of-3-dots-to-indicate-a-pause-in-speech/63376#63376

[french frank]

One can perfectly correctly refer to a three-dot suspension point in the singular

In the first place, you didn't say 'a three-dot suspension point' you said, 'a suspension point'; in the second place, the dictionary definition of 'suspension point' is "one of a series of dots, usually three" (cf the French for the punctuation mark points de suspension; thirdly, 'point' is from Latin punctum from pungo, and indicates a precise spot, a small hole caused by piercing, a small point in space: it embodies singularity, except when plural; fourthly, as you use it, it appears from the link you give to be a Wikipedia-sanctioned Americanism … [ < smile of triumph]. It also seems to me to imply the American use of 'point' where we would use 'full stop'.

[Serial_Apologist]

In the first place, you didn't say 'a three-dot suspension point' you said, 'a suspension point'; in the second place, the dictionary definition of 'suspension point' is "one of a series of dots, usually three" (cf the French for the punctuation mark points de suspension; thirdly, 'point' is from Latin punctum from pungo, and indicates a precise spot, a small hole caused by piercing, a small point in space: it embodies singularity, except when plural; fourthly, as you use it, it appears from the link you give to be a Wikipedia-sanctioned Americanism … [ < smile of triumph]. It also seems to me to imply the American use of 'point' where we would use 'full stop'.

The American term "period" for full stop has always fascinated me. Is it a case, as with a lot of Amrican English, of its use having preceded that of our "full stop"?

[vinteuil]

The American term "period" for full stop has always fascinated me. Is it a case, as with a lot of Amrican English, of its use having preceded that of our "full stop"?

The OED has 'period' meaning 'a full pause such as is properly made at the end of a sentence' dating from 1587, and as 'the point or character that marks the end of a complete sentence ; a full stop' from 1609 : and 'full stop' meaning 'the end of a sentence ; the single point or dot used to mark this ; a period, full point' from 1596.

Honours even, methinks.

(Haven't got a decent American English dixonary to hand... )


.

[jean]

Period goes back to classical rhetoric, and is the expression of a complete thought, much as we use the word sentence - but Cicero's tend to be rather longer than ours. Later, and not particularly in America, it began to refer to the punctuation that terminated the piece of text rather than the text itself.

The same thing has happened with colon - cf. the tricolon, a word used for the figure expressing three parallel words, phrases, or clauses, rather than the punctuation which demarcated them (the Greeks and Romans managed without punctuation, on the whole).