Pedants' Paradise

[ahinton]

She deleted it, I believe.

I'd assumed that this might have been the case as the screen froze while I was trying to post a response to it while she was doubtless doing so.

[oddoneout]

I read on the BBC News website today:

"… former Green Party nominee Jill Stein's recount campaign in Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania is unlikely to change the electoral math."

Not only would I not say 'math' for 'maths', I think I would probably have said 'arithmetic' (isn't the calculation mainly a question of adding up?).

Number crunching in the US of A tends to be singular doesn't it for some reason, so perhaps that's the reason for 'electoral math'?

[subcontrabass]

I read on the BBC News website today:

"… former Green Party nominee Jill Stein's recount campaign in Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania is unlikely to change the electoral math."

Not only would I not say 'math' for 'maths', I think I would probably have said 'arithmetic' (isn't the calculation mainly a question of adding up?).

The author is American. Presumably no-one at the BBC bothered to edit her work to make it conform to British English usage.

[jean]

She deleted it, I believe.

She did - she had thought that Jill Stein was a candidate rather than a mere nominee which (she thought) meant a stage before you were adopted as a candidate, but she checked and it looks as if they're the same (to Americans, anyway).

.

[french frank]

The author is American. Presumably no-one at the BBC bothered to edit her work to make it conform to British English usage.

I hadn't noticed that she was American, and I don't object to Americans using Americanisms. I was more struck by the use of math(s) rather than arithmetic. But I suppose the phrase, 'Do the math' has become so commonplace that no one does arithmetic any longer. I think the British English speakers would be more likely to use a looser terminology like, 'The arithmetic doesn't work'. Snappier is catchier, I suppose.

[oddoneout]

'The arithmetic doesn't work'. Snappier is catchier, I suppose.

The numbers don't add up?

[french frank]

The numbers don't add up?

Yes, that what we'd say, isn't it?

[gurnemanz]

Why is (are?) mathematics plural and arithmetic singular?

[Serial_Apologist]

Why is (are?) mathematics plural and arithmetic singular?

Because maths include arithmetic, algebra, calculus, geometry and trigonometry?

[gurnemanz]

Because maths include arithmetic, algebra, calculus, geometry and trigonometry?

That's plausible, but in German it's singular - Mathematik (likewise Physik etc)

[vinteuil]

Why is (are?) mathematics plural and arithmetic singular?

wiki is helpful here :

"The apparent plural form in English, like the French plural form les mathématiques (and the less commonly used singular derivative la mathématique), goes back to the Latin neuter plural mathematica (Cicero), based on the Greek plural τα μαθηματικά (ta mathēmatiká), used by Aristotle (384–322 BC), and meaning roughly "all things mathematical"; although it is plausible that English borrowed only the adjective mathematic(al) and formed the noun mathematics anew, after the pattern of physics and metaphysics, which were inherited from the Greek. In English, the noun mathematics takes singular verb forms. It is often shortened to maths or, in English-speaking North America, math."

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Le mot « mathématique » vient du grec par l'intermédiaire du latin. Le mot μάθημα (máthēma) signifie « science, connaissance » puis «mathématiques » de μαθὴματα ; il a donné naissance à l'adjectif μαθηματικός (mathematikos), d'abord « relatif au savoir » puis « qui concerne les sciences mathématiques ». Cet adjectif a été adopté en latin (mathematicus) et dans les langues romanes par la suite (« mathématique » en français, matematica en italien, etc.), ainsi que dans de nombreuses autres langues. La forme neutre de l'adjectif μαθηματικός a été substantivée en τα μαθηματικά (ta mathēmatiká) pour désigner les sciences mathématiques dans leur ensemble. Cette forme plurielle, utilisée par Aristote, explique l'usage du pluriel pour le substantif en latin chez Cicéron (mathematica) puis en français et dans certaines autres langues européennes. Le singulier (« la mathématique ») est parfois employé en français, mais « le mot donne alors au contexte une teinte d'archaïsme ou de didactisme4 ». Toutefois, certains auteurs, à la suite de Nicolas Bourbaki, insistent sur l'utilisation du singulier, pour montrer l'uniformisation apportée par l'approche axiomatique contemporaine : Jean Dieudonné semble être le premier à avoir lancé ce mot d'ordre : « La Mathématique est une » ; le vaste traité de Bourbaki s'intitule Éléments de mathématique, tandis que, par contraste, le fascicule historique qui l'accompagne a pour titre Éléments d'histoire des mathématiques. Dans l'argot scolaire, le terme « mathématiques » est fréquemment apocopé en « maths »

[jean]

wiki is helpful here :

Or perhaps not...

"The apparent plural form in English, like the French plural form les mathématiques (and the less commonly used singular derivative la mathématique), goes back to the Latin neuter plural mathematica (Cicero)..."

Lewis & Short have an entry for the adjective mathematicus, of which the masculine singular is used several times by Cicero, and once by Seneca, to mean a mathematician. The feminine singular (mathematica) is used for mathematics, but the only source they give is Seneca and I haven't looked it up in context so I can't tell if it is really a neuter plural which would of course have the same form, but be used with a plural verb. I can't imagine, though, that L&S's scholarship would have failed them on that one.

I only have a baby Liddell & Scott so no citations, but it lists the adjective μαθηματικός, (from from which the Latin is clearly derived) and then gives the feminine singular μαθηματικὴ (sc. τέχνη, art), as meaning mathematics. The neuter plural would not have exactly the same form as the feminine singular (as happens in Latin) but would end in α.

The Greek noun μαθημα, the origin of all this, originally had the wider meaning of something learned (as you say). After the Classical period the Latin mathematicus came to mean an astrologer.

[french frank]

Mathematics, physics, linguistics, logistics, ethics, all followed by a singular verb when referring a subject of study. OED explains physics as 'after ancient Greek τὰ ϕυσικά , lit. ‘natural things’ … , so like the Latin neuter plural. So, wouldn't you say, 'Your ethics are appalling' rather than 'is appalling'?

Logistics can apparently be followed by a singular or a plural verb form

[jean]

OED explains physics as 'after ancient Greek τὰ ϕυσικά , lit. ‘natural things’ …

Yes, because there really was such a neuter plural in use.

But for the etymology of mathematics, the OED has ' (probably after physics, metaphysics, etc., rather than ancient Greek τὰ μαθηματικά ') - thus rather cleverly not committing itself to the belief that there ever was such a neuter plural in Greek. My researches (see above) suggest that there probably wasn't.

What do the Americans do with physics, linguistics, logistics, and ethics? If it's only mathematics that has reverted to an apparent singular, we may have to conclude that they're more etymologically aware than we are!

[jean]

So, wouldn't you say, 'Your ethics are appalling' rather than 'is appalling'?

I'd probably say that if I were judging your behaviour.

If I were marking your essay, I'd say 'Your ethics is appalling'.