Pedants' Paradise

Collapse
This is a sticky topic.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Serial_Apologist
    Full Member
    • Dec 2010
    • 37814

    I'm often hearing newscasters using the verb reduce intransitively - as, the other morning, in the statement "Scientists have discovered that the gap in the ozone layer over Antarctica is reducing".

    Reducing what?

    My dictionaries inform me that Reduce is a transitive verb.

    What do others think? (I'm only asking because we haven't heard from jean for quite some time, and I hope she's OK.)

    Comment

    • Pulcinella
      Host
      • Feb 2014
      • 11062

      Originally posted by Serial_Apologist View Post
      I'm often hearing newscasters using the verb reduce intransitively - as, the other morning, in the statement "Scientists have discovered that the gap in the ozone layer over Antarctica is reducing".

      Reducing what?

      My dictionaries inform me that Reduce is a transitive verb.

      What do others think? (I'm only asking because we haven't heard from jean for quite some time, and I hope she's OK.)
      It wouldn't be quite as bad, perhaps, if used as.......the size of the gap is reducing.
      I haven't checked (transitive/intransitive) but presumably 'shrink' causes the same concern: the gap is shrinking or the size of the gap is shrinking.

      PS: I should have checked before posting.
      My Chambers says that both reduce and shrink can be transitive or intransitive.
      Last edited by Pulcinella; 02-07-16, 16:14. Reason: PS added!

      Comment

      • jean
        Late member
        • Nov 2010
        • 7100

        Originally posted by Pulcinella View Post
        ...My Chambers says that both reduce and shrink can be transitive or intransitive.
        The first intransitive use cited by the OED is from 1912.

        A pedant might want to argue that as the Latin verb ducere (to lead) is always transitive, words derived from it should be, too. But I am not that pedant.

        Originally posted by Serial_Apologist View Post
        (I'm only asking because we haven't heard from jean for quite some time, and I hope she's OK.)
        As OK as is possible in the circumstances - I've been away, reading the Referendum thread on my phone but haven't the heart to post much about anything.

        .
        Last edited by jean; 02-07-16, 21:18.

        Comment

        • french frank
          Administrator/Moderator
          • Feb 2007
          • 30456

          Originally posted by jean View Post
          The first transitive use cited by the OED is from 1912.
          Did you mean the first intransitive use?

          1912 Geogr. Jrnl. 39 256 In all streams the current is most rapid near the surface, and gradually reduces towards the bed.
          It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

          Comment

          • jean
            Late member
            • Nov 2010
            • 7100

            Originally posted by french frank View Post
            Did you mean the first intransitive use?
            Yes I did

            Comment

            • ferneyhoughgeliebte
              Gone fishin'
              • Sep 2011
              • 30163

              Isn't there a term in cookery - a sauce is in the process of "reducing"? (I may have misheard.)
              [FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]

              Comment

              • jean
                Late member
                • Nov 2010
                • 7100

                You 'reduce' a liquid by boiling it to drive off excess water. But that usage is generally transitive (or do I mean intransitive?)

                Comment

                • ahinton
                  Full Member
                  • Nov 2010
                  • 16123

                  Originally posted by Pulcinella View Post
                  My Chambers says that both reduce and shrink can be transitive or intransitive.
                  I daresay that some people would simply wish that their intransigent shrink would reduce his fees.

                  Comment

                  • ahinton
                    Full Member
                    • Nov 2010
                    • 16123

                    Originally posted by ferneyhoughgeliebte View Post
                    Isn't there a term in cookery - a sauce is in the process of "reducing"? (I may have misheard.)
                    Had you misheard, you might come to Roux the day that you did so...

                    Comment

                    • Serial_Apologist
                      Full Member
                      • Dec 2010
                      • 37814

                      Originally posted by ahinton View Post
                      Had you misheard, you might come to Roux the day that you did so...
                      You're always stirring things!

                      Thanks everyone. I've reached the tentative conclusion that what the ozone layer is transitively reducing must be itself!

                      Comment

                      • ahinton
                        Full Member
                        • Nov 2010
                        • 16123

                        Originally posted by Serial_Apologist View Post
                        You're always stirring things!

                        Thanks everyone. I've reached the tentative conclusion that what the ozone layer is transitively reducing must be itself!
                        ..and perhaps also that white van man can usually be relied upon to vote Transitive...

                        Comment

                        • jean
                          Late member
                          • Nov 2010
                          • 7100

                          I was amused by this exchange. First, a quote from Psalm 127 (KJV):

                          Originally posted by jonfan View Post
                          'Except the Lord build the house they labour in vain that build it.'
                          This was then quietly and helpfully corrected by someone who didn't get the subjunctive:

                          Originally posted by ferneyhoughgeliebte View Post
                          'Except the Lord builds the house they labour in vain that build it.'
                          Only to be quietly and helpfully corrected back again by someone who did:

                          Originally posted by Flosshilde View Post
                          'Except the Lord build the house they labour in vain that build it.'

                          Comment

                          • ferneyhoughgeliebte
                            Gone fishin'
                            • Sep 2011
                            • 30163

                            Whilst I am delighted to have caused jean some amusement - such a rare occurrence - I think it behoves me to point out that in that exchange, at 10:45, I quoted from (not "corrected") jonfan's original message (posted at 10:35). Following this (as far as timing is concerned - I make no suggestion that the one caused the other), jonfan corrected the quotation at 13:24 (as he comments in his postscript) and Flossie quoted from that correction (rather than "correcting" me, "helpfully" or otherwise) at 16:36.

                            Nonetheless, it has brightened my own morning considerably to know that this has caused amusement over the last ten and a half weeks.
                            [FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]

                            Comment

                            • jean
                              Late member
                              • Nov 2010
                              • 7100

                              What a shame! I preferred my scenario!

                              Comment

                              • ferneyhoughgeliebte
                                Gone fishin'
                                • Sep 2011
                                • 30163

                                Originally posted by jean View Post
                                What a shame! I preferred my scenario!
                                - Quite right!
                                [FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X