Pedants' Paradise

[Pulcinella]

Just spotted on the side of a van:

Making tomorrow a better place

I suppose that somebody thought that this meant something when it became the company strapline.

[jean]

New bit of hypercorrection spotted this morning: some pro-Brexit person is accusing the other side of 'not playing fairly.'

(Yet another reason not to vote for them.)

[Keraulophone]

somebody thought that this meant something

It was Einstein, while formulating Special Relativity.

And another thing...

During the discussion on this morning's R4 'Today' on the imminent demise of the 11,000 recipes archived on the BBC website, a defender of the 18 recipes for Spaghetti Bolognese claimed that there are as many recipes for Spaghetti Bolognese as there are households 'in the region in Italy where it came from'.

As every pasta lover kno, this dish is an American imposter brought to Italy by US troops during WW2; whereas Ragù alla Bolognese is the time-honoured dish of Emilia Romagna, usually served with tagliatelle or pappardelle which are able to hold the chunks of meat.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

New bit of hypercorrection spotted this morning: some pro-Brexit person is accusing the other side of 'not playing fairly.'

(Yet another reason not to vote for them.)

Well. . . "playing" is a verb, and "fairly" is an adverb, so it seems OK. However, I applaud any excuse not to vote for Little Englanders.

[gurnemanz]

I also think the pro-Brexiter is wrong. The idiom "play fair" is a set phrase, figurative in usage and meaning "behave honestly or by the rules". This what the writer wants here. It may have come from America where it is common in colloquial usage not to add -ly to adverbs. Drive careful!

To "play fairly" (verb + adverb) would surely be used by preference in the context of literal play. eg Young footballers should be encouraged to play fairly.

Similarly: play dirty v. play dirtily

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I also think the pro-Brexiter is wrong. The idiom "play fair" is a set phrase, figurative in usage and meaning "behave honestly or by the rules". This what the writer wants here. It may have come from America where it is common in colloquial usage not to add -ly to adverbs. Drive careful!

To "play fairly" (verb + adverb) would surely be used by preference in the context of literal play. eg Young footballers should be encouraged to play fairly.

Similarly: play dirty v. play dirtily

I see what you mean.

Or I did until you tried to justify it by the example of colloquial American grammar.

[jean]

Don't worry, Alpie - the idiom predates American linguistic influence by some centuries:

...(a) to play fair: to play according to the rules of the game, without cheating; (hence) to do something regularly, to act justly or honourably. Also to play a person fair: to treat a person fairly or honourably.

1450 York Plays 268 (MED), Playes faire in feere.

1616 Shakespeare Measure for Measure (1623) iii. i. 142 Heauen shield my Mother plaid my Father faire.

1637 S. Rutherford Lett. (1863) I. 207, I find it to be hard wrestling to play fair with Christ and to keep good quarters with Him.

?1684 A. Behn Poems Several Occasions sig. H8, The sly Gamester, who ne'er plays me fair.

1763 C. Johnstone Reverie (new ed.) I. 153 They will imagine that you do not play fair.

[oddoneout]

At what point should defeat be admitted(if at all) in the matter of mispronunciation of words? The reply to a RT reader's letter about a BBC4 Ordnance Survey documentary suggested that it didn't matter that 'ordnance' was consistently pronounced as 'ordinance' as "this has become a common way of pronouncing the word".
I suppose 'cannon' and 'canon' do sound the same ....

[french frank]

I suppose 'cannon' and 'canon' do sound the same ....

And therefore mean the same. Especially if you use the spellings indiscriminately in any context.

The problem with Ordnance is that the rarer grouping of 'd' and 'n' tends towards the natural articulation of an epenthetic vowel which is heard but not necessarily intended.

[vinteuil]

The problem with Ordnance is that the rarer grouping of 'd' and 'n' tends towards the natural articulation of an epenthetic vowel which is heard but not necessarily intended.

Edna said - "I had'na clue what he meant - a bottle of Adnam's while driving over Hardknott Pass? - I'd know if I was drunk... " God knows how she got home.

No need for your epenthetix, surely?

[french frank]

Edna said - "I had'na clue what he meant - a bottle of Adnam's while driving over Hardknott Pass? - I'd know if I was drunk... " God knows how she got home.

No need for your epenthetix, surely?

I don't think you've illustrated that dn is a usual consonantal group in English. Three examples are proper names. Probably glottal stops v epenthetic vowel. If you give the d full value, you're almost bound to produce the additional vowel.

[vinteuil]

If you give the d full value, you're almost bound to produce the additional vowel.

... you might. I wouldna.

Mebbe it's cos I'm an odd number - I could'n say..






.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I regularly hear people say "ordnary".

[Pulcinella]

I regularly hear people say "ordnary".

Only on Wensdays or on other weekdays too?

[mangerton]

It's goodnight from me.