Pedants' Paradise

[jean]

Someone should have told that Edward Fitzgerald.

Myself when young did eagerly frequent
Doctor and Saint, and heard great Argument
About it and about: but evermore
Came out by the same Door as in I went.

[french frank]

Someone should have told that Edward Fitzgerald.

I remember one of the Beatles (John? Paul?) explaining seriously that when writing lyrics you should avoid adding words just to make the line scan (viz. 'For I do think').

Though I do think there is a shade of difference there: 'Myself when young' as the title of a painting, for example, to avoid a slightly jarring ( ) 'Me when young'. It's the 'Myself and my wife' that seems, erm, a little odd …

[jean]

...when writing lyrics you should avoid adding words just to make the line scan...

Someone should have told that William Shakespeare.

1594 Shakespeare Titus Andronicus iv. iv. 74 My selfe hath often heard them say,..That Lucius banishment was wrongfullie.

a1616 Shakespeare Julius Caesar (1623) iv. ii. 223 My selfe haue Letters of the selfe-same Tenure.

[jean]

...It's the 'Myself and my wife' that seems, erm, a little odd …

1682 J. Bunyan Holy War 155 Both they and my self are guilty of great transgressions.

1850 Ladies' Repository Dec. 386/1 Myself and reader are bound for Kennebunkport.

1904 W. B. Yeats Let. 16 Apr. (1994) III. 582 Miss Horniman, the architect & myself were inspecting the theatre.

[vinteuil]

Coincidentally, a PS to above: Just listened to poet, Owen Sheers, on Private Passions, referring to "how myself and my wife met".

... I think Owen Sheers is also a Welsh speaker. Could any of our Welsh-speaking forumistas advise whether this by any chance reflects a Welsh turn of phrase?

[Bryn]

... I think Owen Sheers is also a Welsh speaker. Could any of our Welsh-speaking forumistas advise whether this by any chance reflects a Welsh turn of phrase?

Indeed, where are the Welsh-speakers to?

[jean]

The OED doesn't mention Welsh, but notes the use of myself 'As part of a compound subject or predicate... Also (chiefly Irish English) as simple predicate.'

1918 ‘B. MacNamara’ Valley of Squinting Windows 177 But sure it was myself that could not blame him at all.

[ahinton]

It might be a very short haul from questionable uses of "myself" to those of "my selfie", I hate to have to imagine...

Pedantic? Moi(self)?

Somehow, certain uses of "myself" seem potentially suggestive of the notion of "my self" as distinct from any other part of me, though what that might or might not tell any of us here is open to question...

[french frank]

(Myself) I'd go more readily with the regional explanation (esp. where there is an underlying different language) than sundry quotations from the 17 th century.

[jean]

Usage is usage, whether legitimised by an 'underlying different language' or not!

[french frank]

Usage is usage, whether legitimised by an 'underlying different language' or not!

Well, yes. The point being that usage in the 17 thc. isn't necessarily usage in the 21st c. So the examples are examples of usage in the 17 th c. (when it may have been more common than now and not particularly odd, or tinged now, perhaps, with usage from other languages).

[Padraig]

(Myself) I'd go more readily with the regional explanation

perfect use of the idiom, f f . No need for the brackets.

[french frank]

perfect use of the idiom, f f . No need for the brackets.

[jean]

Well, yes. The point being that usage in the 17 thc. isn't necessarily usage in the 21st c...

But the reasons usually given for why something is 'wrong' now would obtain just as much in the C17 - and I gave quotations from the C19 and C20 too, so there's an unbroken line of succession to be traced, which makes it difficult to pinpoint exactly when wrongness entered the frame in rthis case.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I remember one of the Beatles (John? Paul?) explaining seriously that when writing lyrics you should avoid adding words just to make the line scan

That's exactly what rappers do - the superfluous fill-ins being swear words.