Pedants' Paradise

[vinteuil]

How about: The As and Bs have come out crooked?

... but (following Fowler [1996]) apostrophes wd seem desirable in -

dot your i's and cross your t's

there are three i's in inimical

[Serial_Apologist]

With apostrophes, I can never work out whether, with a proper noun ending -s, one follows the possessive apostrophe (or whatever the technical term is) with another s: e.g. John Stevens's Spontaneous Music Ensemble, or John Stevens' Spontaneous Music Ensemble.

Being economical with the truth I prefer the second, but since my reputation may depend on which is right, can someone assure me?

[vinteuil]

... restaurant run by someone called Panini.

... well, this is certainly the right thread. Panini was one of the the first, and one of the greatest, grammarians -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P%C4%81%E1%B9%87ini

.

http://www-history.mcs.st-and.ac.uk/Biographies/Panini.html

[Serial_Apologist]

... well, this is certainly the right thread. Panini was the first, and one of the greatest, grammarians.

He also must have been well-bread.

(Sorry - where's my coat...).

[vinteuil]

With apostrophes, I can never work out whether, with a proper noun ending -s, one follows the possessive apostrophe (or whatever the technical term is) with another s: e.g. John Stevens's Spontaneous Music Ensemble, or John Stevens' Spontaneous Music Ensemble.

Being economical with the truth I prefer the second, but since my reputation may depend on which is right, can someone assure me?

... with English names the usual rule is -'s "whenever possible, ie in all monosyllables and disyllables, and in longer words accented on the penult" -

Charles's Cousins's Gustavus's Hicks's St James's Jones's Thomas's Zacharias's

in longer names not accented on the penult -'s is also preferable, tho' -' is also admissible - eg Nicholas'

Euphony may decide the addition or omission of 's. It is often omitted when the last syllable of the name is pronounced -iz, as in Bridges', Moses'.

There are as always exceptions. The hospital seems to prefer to be St Thomas'

[Serial_Apologist]

... with English names the usual rule is -'s "whenever possible, ie in all monosyllables and disyllables, and in longer words accented on the penult" -

Charles's Cousins's Gustavus's Hicks's St James's Jones's Thomas's Zacharias's

in longer names not accented on the penult -'s is also preferable, tho' -' is also admissible - eg Nicholas'

Euphony may decide the addition or omission of 's. It is often omitted when the last syllable of the name is pronounced -iz, as in Bridges', Moses'.

There are as always exceptions. The hospital seems to prefer to be St Thomas'

Many thanks, vint's!

[french frank]

Euphony may decide the addition or omission of 's. It is often omitted when the last syllable of the name is pronounced -iz, as in Bridges', Moses'.

I would take that as a key factor, not least because it can be reasonably explained that Mosiz'iz'es's sounds a little awkward.

I'm not sure that it wouldn't be permissible to have a different practice, depending on whether the use is written (visual) or spoken (aural). One might speak, for instance of St Nicholas' Church or St Nicholas's.

PS I note in Wikipedia: 'New Media operates Panini's on-line applications ...'

[jean]

I live in the area surrounding the church of St Michael in the Hamlet. The council ward and the railway station are called St Michaels, without apostrophe - as is the primary school, which is important, as it isn't a church school.

[vinteuil]

Place names seem quite unpredictable. Earls Court but Baron's Court; Shepherd's Bush Green but Golders Green and Palmers Green. Why no apostrophes for All Souls (Oxford), Bury St Edmunds, Johns Hopkins University, Owens College (Manchester), St Albans, St Andrews, St Bees, St Helens (Merseyside), St Kitts, St Leonards, St Neots (Cambridgeshire)?

[Nick Armstrong]

Sometimes it is precise though: your Oxford Queen is singular whereas there are more in Cambridge, judging by the careful distinction between Queen's College and Queens' College respectively...

[vinteuil]

the careful distinction between Queen's College and Queens' College respectively...

... and with good reason here : in Oxford, the queen of Edward III; in Cambridge both the queen of Henry VI and the queen of Edward IV were involved

[subcontrabass]

Sometimes it is precise though: your Oxford Queen is singular whereas there are more in Cambridge, judging by the careful distinction between Queen's College and Queens' College respectively...

Not only singular at Oxford but also has a definite article: The Queen's College.

[vinteuil]

Not only singular at Oxford but also has a definite article: The Queen's College.

... I think the Cambridge one also has a definite article in its full form - "The Queen's College of St Margaret and St Bernard, commonly called Queens' College, in the University of Cambridge". Note that the first Queen is singular...

The Cambridge college used to be called Queen's -

http://www.queens.cam.ac.uk/life-at-queens/about-the-college/college-facts/that-apostrophe

[ardcarp]

There is a view that apostrophes should be completely abandoned. The occasions when possessives or omitted letters get confused with simple plurals are so rare as to be negligible. In the phrase "Johns coat" we know perfectly well we are talking about the coat belonging to John. "Its a fine day" unambiguously means that the day is fine. So although in practice I'm [Im?] a paid-up member of the apostrophe police, if it became acceptable not to use them at all, I'd [Id?] be happy.

Would anyone like to suggest a sentence where meaning is seriously compromised by a missing apostrophe?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Would anyone like to suggest a sentence where meaning is seriously compromised by a missing apostrophe?

Read "Eats, Shoots and Leaves" by Lynn Truss, for multiple examples.