Pedants' Paradise

[french frank]

His point is that those who object to "different to" are - mistaken

I didn't read that as being his point. He was saying, surely, that the only reason why 'different from' was 'more usual' (OED) was because mistaken critics had objected to 'different to'. How he was so certain that that was the reason it was now 'more usual, I don't know.

My point was that that is less important than that 'different from' is 'more usual' and therefore is Modern English Usage. But I prefer 'different from' on etymological grounds because, to me, it seems more logical, not because I 'object' to 'different to'.

Once you start think of 'different' in terms of a present participle, I can't think how you could use anything but 'di-FFERent from'. But if you just think of it as an adjective you might use different with or by or over, under, as …

[jean]

The same is true of 'averse'.

[Pabmusic]

I've been away for a while; this is my first post for some time.

Michael Quinion sums up the 'different from' (etc.) case very well. It seems than from, to and than are all quite old constructions:

http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-dif1.htm

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I've always just preferred the directional logic of 'different from' and 'similar to'. It just seems to make more sense and be more elegant, to me.

[jean]

But what (as I keep asking of those who feel so strongly about it, with no response) about the very similar directional logic that would require averse from, but rarely does?

...What female heart can gold despise?
What cat’s averse to fish?...

[Pabmusic]

But what (as I keep asking of those who feel so strongly about it, with no response) about the very similar directional logic that would require averse from, but rarely does?

...What female heart can gold despise?
What cat’s averse to fish?...

I agree, but that simply suggests that direction has little to do with it.

[jean]

That is precisely what I wished to suggest. I await a response from those who think direction important.

On the same theme, what about disinclined?

[vinteuil]

directional logic .

... those who study languages at all seriously soon become aware that 'logic' is not usually a good way to understand how a language functions.

[Nick Armstrong]

... those who study languages at all seriously soon become aware that 'logic' is not usually a good way to understand how a language functions.

Ah - well as one who speaks it (and tries to make a living with it), as opposed to studying it, I tend to try and stick to the more logical approach to English if I can. It helps with the jolly old apostrophes for instance!!

[jean]

So...what preposition do you think would logically follow averse? Or disinclined?

[Nick Armstrong]

But what (as I keep asking of those who feel so strongly about it, with no response) about the very similar directional logic that would require averse from, but rarely does?

...What female heart can gold despise?
What cat’s averse to fish?...

Perhaps because the sense of averse (cf the French au verso) is for me of turning your back towards something. The metaphorical motion is the opposite of different from... which is more about being distant / (literally) carrying something away from...

So...what preposition do you think would logically follow averse?

Hence to does very well, I feel.

[jean]

Perhaps because the sense of averse (cf the French au verso) is for me of turning your back towards something...

Ingenious, but etymologically it's nothing to do with French au verso - it is directly from the past participle of Latin avertere, a (from) + vertere (to turn), thus turned from.

(Latin ad, to, and a, ab, from, are confusions waiting to happen. French à, au, aux are all from ad,, and another Latin preposition altogether - de - is preferred for the meaning from.)

Hence to does very well, I feel.

Dr Johnnson did not agree.

.

[Pabmusic]

Ah - well as one who speaks it (and tries to make a living with it), as opposed to studying it, I tend to try and stick to the more logical approach to English if I can. It helps with the jolly old apostrophes for instance!!

Cali, apostrophes are easy.

An apostrophe denotes a missing letter. In OE (Anglo-Saxon) the genitive was (usually) -es (as in the name Brookes). Take out the E and replace it with an apostrophe (or with a plural noun, the final -es and replace it with an apostrophe). The dog's bone (the bone of the dog); the dogs' bone (the bone of the dogs). Other missing letters tend to be more obvious (Don't, it's, o'clock, the '74 World Cup).

Apostrophes can also be used for clarity:

Mind your p's and q's.
The a's and b's have come out crooked.

Easy isn't it?

[Nick Armstrong]

Yes, Im quite good at apostrophe's, thank's!

[Pabmusic]

Yes, Im quite good at apostrophe's, thank's!

Thats good. Nice to speak.

Best wishe's.