Pedants' Paradise

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Strange headline on the front page of The Times today: 'Cameron's shot across the bows to the BBC'

Surely this is unidiomatic and illogical. One would expect 'of the BBC'. Whose bows did the shot cross before arriving at the BBC?

As I've said many times, "to" is rapidly becoming the universal preposition. Soon we'll have one preposition, no verbs (using nouns instead) and no adverbs (substituting them with adjectives). Compared with other languages, English is becoming increasingly chaotic.

(Cue jean )

[Don Petter]

Compared with other languages,

[Don Petter]

I have just thought of a possible interpretation.

Perhaps Cameron, commanding the ship of state, has fired the shot from his forward turret, across his own bows and directly at the BBC hoping to sink, rather than warn, the institution?

[jean]

(Cue jean )

1538 T. Starkey Dial. Pole & Lupset(1989) 31 The one may..be comparyd to the body & the other to the soule.

1611 Bible (King James) Prov. iii. 15 All the things thou canst desire, are not to be compared vnto her.

1699 W. Dampier Voy. & Descr. i. vii. 125 He compares it to a Sloe, in shape and taste.

1855 W. H. Prescott Hist. Reign Philip II of Spain I. i. iv. 113 He greatly offended the Flemings by comparing their ships to muscle-shells.


And of course...Shall I compare thee to a Summer's day...


.

[jean]

As I've said many times, "to" is rapidly becoming the universal preposition...

But that's not the point here, which is rather a carelessness with the metaphor, isn't it?

http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/16900.html

I've never really thought about whose bows we were referring to (but then, I don't think I've ever made use of the metaphor).

[french frank]

Shall I compare thee to a Summer's day...[/I]

Don't they have slightly different meanings? Compared with emphasises differences, compared to (as above) similarities?

[jean]

(Sshhhh...I was hoping EA wouldn't notice...)

[gurnemanz]

Strange headline on the front page of The Times today: 'Cameron's shot across the bows to the BBC'

Surely this is unidiomatic and illogical. One would expect 'of the BBC'. Whose bows did the shot cross before arriving at the BBC?

Any analysis would have to take into account that this is a headline with no verb, so not a grammatical sentence. If the missing verb were to be "give", then "to" could have the function of the dative case, as in maybe: "Cameron gave a shot across the bows to the BBC" or more idiomatically: "Cameron gave the BBC a shot across the bows" - both of which are probably acceptable.

[Don Petter]

1538 T. Starkey Dial. Pole & Lupset(1989) 31 The one may..be comparyd to the body & the other to the soule.

1611 Bible (King James) Prov. iii. 15 All the things thou canst desire, are not to be compared vnto her.

1699 W. Dampier Voy. & Descr. i. vii. 125 He compares it to a Sloe, in shape and taste.

1855 W. H. Prescott Hist. Reign Philip II of Spain I. i. iv. 113 He greatly offended the Flemings by comparing their ships to muscle-shells.


And of course...Shall I compare thee to a Summer's day...


.

But all these are saying 'A is like B'.

EA's point is that 'to' would be wrong where English is being said to be different from other languages.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Don't they have slightly different meanings? Compared with emphasises differences, compared to (as above) similarities?

In practice, many people use either one or the other all of the time. The difference is too subtle. Of the two, I always find "to" to be too confrontational. (Did you like that? )

[Don Petter]

In practice, many people use either one or the other all of the time.

In that case, they should stick with 'with'. At least it couldn't be wrong.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

And of course...Shall I compare thee to a Summer's day...

That one always comes up.

But while we are searching through literary references, I should mention Jane Austen's Sense and Sensibility, Chapter 10.

"Do you compare your conduct with his?"
"No. I compare it with what it out to have been, I compare it with yours."

But in Andrew Davies' BBC adaptation, the adaptor arrogantly changes it to No. I compare it to what it should have been.

[jean]

In practice, many people use either one or the other all of the time. The difference is too subtle. Of the two, I always find "to" to be too confrontational. (Did you like that? )

But surely with is the more confrontational of the two - especially as it originally meant against?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

But surely with is the more confrontational of the two - especially as it originally meant against?

I think of "with" as being side by side, so a comparison would be thought out in a reasoned manner. When I sit with someone, I like to think there's nothing antagonistic in the situation.

[jean]

You are thinking unetymologically.

When you withstand something, or fight with someone, you are usually not very well disposed towards them.

Even in the present case, as ff pointed out earlier,

Compared with emphasises differences, compared to (as above) similarities?