Pedants' Paradise

[Pabmusic]

One tiny point:


Surely it's moot now... but will become certain later next month?

Yes, I agree. But it was written by an American, and American usage has moved away from the original, so that "a moot point" in the US is an irrelevant one, not (as in the UK) a debatable one. An Anglo-Saxon moot was, of course, a meeting convened to decide something (it's a cognate of meet).

Nice to wear the old tweed jacket with elbow patches now and again.

[greenilex]

In Southampton there is a "moot point" on the Common.

People have nearly stopped turning up...

[Nick Armstrong]

American usage has moved away from the original, so that "a moot point" in the US is an irrelevant one, not (as in the UK) a debatable one.

I didn't know that. Having come through the ranks of the law (i.e. successfully avoiding participation in all Moots), I'm afraid the incorre... err... different American usage just doesn't compute in my brain!

[Honoured Guest]

The legal usage of many words is different to their common usages so it's always misleading to intend a legal meaning when using any word outside a legal situation.

[Pabmusic]

The legal usage of many words is different to their common usages so it's always misleading to intend a legal meaning when using any word outside a legal situation.

We're in danger of starting a Pedant's Paradise sub-thread here, but this isn't a case of legal usage -v- common usage. It's British usage -v- American usage. This blog illustrates the issue:

http://mentalfloss.com/article/30052/meaning-word-moot-moot

[Nick Armstrong]

Pedant's Paradise

Point taken - posts moved!

The legal usage of many words is different to their common usages so it's always misleading to intend a legal meaning when using any word outside a legal situation.

I think that's moot in both the UK and the US sense...

[french frank]

OED 'N. Amer. (orig. Law). Of a case, issue, etc.: having no practical significance or relevance; abstract, academic. Now the usual sense in North America. First recorded 1807.'

This appears to be the 'legal' meaning too, as in 'recognised as being the meaning in legal contexts'. No quibbling over it.

[Nick Armstrong]

This appears to be the 'legal' meaning too, as in 'recognised as being the meaning in legal contexts'. No quibbling over it.

That surprises me. I've always used it, at work and out, as meaning uncertain, open to debate / quibbling!

But I guess it's a moot question...

[Serial_Apologist]

That surprises me. I've always used it, at work and out, as meaning uncertain, open to debate / quibbling!

But I guess it's a moot question...

Concise Oxford Dictionary Third Edition (1940):

moot, n,a,& vt. (Hisat.) assembly; (Law) students' discussion of hypothetical case for practice; (adj.)n debatable; (v.t.) raise (question) for discussion, [(vb f. OE motian, adj, f.n.) OE (ge)mot, cf. Du. gemoet, cogn. W. MEET v.]

[ahinton]

...mootatis mootandis...

[french frank]

That surprises me. I've always used it, at work and out, as meaning uncertain, open to debate / quibbling!

I put 'legal' in quotes (excuse pedantry) to indicate not that it had any legal force (what would that be?) but that several of the quotes had legal sources, presumably because that's where 'moots' originated.

1807 Rep. U.S. Circuit Court: District Virginia (Lexis) 25 126 If a statute of the United States were to adopt a common law phrase, in the creation of an offence, no common law consequences would follow, because we have no common law. But this is a moot point.
1831 Rep. Supreme Court U.S. (Lexis) 30 41 Whether it is the emanation from the People or the States, is a moot question, having no bearing on the supremacy of that supreme law which from a proper source has rightfully been imposed on us by Sovereign Power.
1946 Univ. Pennsylvania Law Rev. Jan. 126 A lawsuit which is, or has become, moot is neither a case nor a controversy in the constitutional sense and no federal court has the power to decide it.
1973 N.Y. Law Jrnl. 31 Aug. 18/4 Motion for an order dismissing this indictment for lack of prosecution is dismissed as moot.

I'm sure bsp would be impressed by our diligence - can there be a better informed group of people in the kingdom on the American use of 'moot'?

[mangerton]

That surprises me. I've always used it, at work and out, as meaning uncertain, open to debate / quibbling!

But I guess it's a moot question...

Yes, that is my understanding of the word.

You may find it interesting to look up "moat, moot, motte" hills which were often used, and frequently constructed artificially, as courts, and as places of execution. There are many such in Scotland.

[jean]

Heard on Any Answers? just now:

Caller: I hate the word diversity!

Anita Anand: That's interesting! Why do you hate the word diversity?

Caller: Well, it's diversive in itself!

[kernelbogey]

On the ten o'clock news slot I've twice heard the presenter (Martha K I think) say 'the election has now officially started'.

I believe the election takes place on one day only, and what has begun imv is the election campaign.

Edit: I meant The World Tonight, on Radio 4; and it was more probably Ritula Shah who said it.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Heard on Any Answers? just now:

Caller: I hate the word diversity!

Anita Anand: That's interesting! Why do you hate the word diversity?

Caller: Well, it's diversive in itself!

(Missed this a fortnight ago - like a "line" from a The Office script.)