Pedants' Paradise

[french frank]

... but you're happy with the River Avon?

Well, 'Avon' - spelling and pronunciation - is a Proper Name, differentiating all Rivers Avon/River Avons from other rivers which have other names. That would be like objecting to a Mr Baker becoming a baker.

I think this man is fighting a losing battle, however, but it is my particular educational background (having The Latin and The French) which would stop me saying 'comprised of'. Those who have media studies, graphic design and information technology need not be worried about such irrelevancies.

[jean]

...it is my particular educational background (having The Latin and The French) which would stop me saying 'comprised of'...

But why should it? Mine doesn't.

[french frank]

But why should it? Mine doesn't.

Because I don't see the reason to change what was perfectly serviceable and comprehensible. My question would be, why does one change? Go with the flow?

[jean]

But what is being changed? This usage has been around since the C18. It should not be confused with the active comprise of (see my post above).

[french frank]

But what is being changed? This usage has been around since the C18. It should not be confused with the active comprise of (see my post above).

Whoops! [Excuse, we had a big family funeral yesterday which kept me away from the forum, so I hadn't been reading it properly.] I was, of course, referring to 'to comprise of' ... Mes excuses.

[jean]

Glad we agree on that! I was worried for a minute...

[french frank]

Glad we agree on that! N I was worried for a minute...

In fact, I would say 'it comprises' or, more commonly, 'it consists of' in most contexts; I wouldn't use 'it is comprised of'. That may well be a latent French influence (il comprend v.tr., il est composé de).

I don't think I use the verb 'to comprise' - it sounds pseudo posh to me. But that's just register, not grammar.

[Don Petter]

In fact, I would say 'it comprises' or, more commonly, 'it consists of' in most contexts; I wouldn't use 'it is comprised of'. That may well be a latent French influence (il comprend v.tr., il est composé de).

I don't think I use the verb 'to comprise' - it sounds pseudo posh to me. But that's just register, not grammar.

Isn't 'it comprises' a use of the verb 'to comprise'?

[french frank]

Isn't 'it comprises' a use of the verb 'to comprise'?

It is. I was saying I wouldn't usually use it at all. I'd probably say 'it consists of'.

[ardcarp]

In his R4 show today, Mark Steele wittily illustrated the incorrect use of 'Luddite'.

[french frank]

In his R4 show today, Mark Steele wittily illustrated the incorrect use of 'Luddite'.

Don't keep us in suspense - which use is incorrect?

[Bryn]

Don't keep us in suspense - which use is incorrect?

Listen to the programme. You know it's worth it.

[ardcarp]

...but if you haven't got time, the word 'Luddite' tends to be applied to people (or by people) who don't understand modern technology. The original Luddites, of course, understood only too well what technology could do, i.e. deprive them of their jobs. But yes, the programme is definitely worth it. It's a winning formula, I suppose, to visit towns and poke fun at them, but MS does it very well.

[french frank]

...but if you haven't got time, the word 'Luddite' tends to be applied to people (or by people) who don't understand modern technology. The original Luddites, of course, understood only too well what technology could do, i.e. deprive them of their jobs. But yes, the programme is definitely worth it. It's a winning formula, I suppose, to visit towns and poke fun at them, but MS does it very well.

Thanks, arders, much obleeged. I was at that moment (of posting) listening to Stephen Johnson Discovering the Sinfonia Antartica.

There's a similar misuse, according to the BBC, of the King Canute analogy.

[french frank]

From the BBC's coverage of the 'nut rage' story today:

"Some critics say that the way family members are favoured is unfair and mitigates against good business. They say the nut rage case epitomises that." Latin mitigare based on mitis - mild, soft. Is militare also used in its opposite meaning?

Cf OED: "Sense 10 appears to have arisen by confusion with the phrase to militate against : see militate v. 2a. This use of the verb has attracted adverse criticism from writers on usage since at least E. Gowers Fowler's Mod. Eng. Usage (ed. 2, 1965). Webster's Dict. Eng. Usage (1989) states that this ‘cannot yet be considered an American idiom and should be avoided.’ "

And Sense 10: 'intr. orig. U.S. to mitigate against : (of a fact or circumstance, an action, etc.) to be a powerful factor or consideration against; to counteract (an argument, a condition, etc.); to hinder or inhibit (an outcome).'


I had no idea it was 'acceptable' anywhere, even if with the rider that it was 'to be avoided'. But a clear example of the OED recording 'actual usage' as well as 'standard usage'.