Pedants' Paradise

[french frank]

The reference to Scotland the What? as Scotland the Fit? relates to the Aberdonian accent where wh (and sometimes h) are rendered as 'f':

e.g. Fit like? Nae bod, foo's yersel? Fa ye gain'?

The labio-dental 'f' retains more of the aspirate than the usual bilabial 'w'.

[gurnemanz]

I tend not to aspirate my "wh" words, but that's because I'm lazy.

There are several hundred words beginning "wh" in English. I was wondering why (hwhy) only some of them are subject to this aspiration. Does anyone say "hwhiskey"?

Looking up "whine" (as opposed to "wine") I made another minor discovery. I had always assumed it was related to the German "weinen" - to weep. The "wh" indicates a different origin - Old English hwinan "to whiz, hiss, or whistle through the air". This was then applied to the noise dogs make and by extension to feebly complaining human beings. "Whine" is actually related to the German "wiehern" - to neigh.

[Pabmusic]

There are several hundred words beginning "wh" in English. I was wondering why (hwhy) only some of them are subject to this aspiration. Does anyone say "hwhiskey"?

Looking up "whine" (as opposed to "wine") I made another minor discovery. I had always assumed it was related to the German "weinen" - to weep. The "wh" indicates a different origin - Old English hwinan "to whiz, hiss, or whistle through the air". This was then applied to the noise dogs make and by extension to feebly complaining human beings. "Whine" is actually related to the German "wiehern" - to neigh.

WH usually indicates an aspirate (Anglo-Saxon HW = hwæt, hwic, etc.). However, that's 1000 years ago and more, and many words (including probably whisky) didn't enter English until more recently. It's much more messy now than it was 1000 years ago.

(I like the 'whine' etymology. )

[french frank]

many words (including probably whisky) didn't enter English until more recently

Uisge beatha. Definitely not Anglo-Saxon HW!

Sort of reminds me of Shakespeare's Fluellen, as an attempt to render the Welsh aspirate 'll' sound of Llywelyn - also rendered as Cl in names like 'Clandaff'.

[french frank]

How meanings change: I went into a kitchens shop to buy a silicone mat (ones you can put hot pans on without damaging worktops). Assistant said they did not have silicone mats, only silicone trivets. I said I had bought a silicone mat there a few months ago so she marched me to where these things were. Silicone trivets. I said but they're not trivets, they're just flat floppy mats. Trivets have three feet (or four at a pinch). Tripedem. But, looking in the OED I see that it can also mean a stand with hooks which fit over the bars of a grate. No feet. Collapse of stout party. So a trivet now refers to its (broad) function, not its original (descriptive), etymological meaning.

But why didn't they just call them mats?

[mercia]

I have what I call a cast-iron trivet but what anyone else might call a teapot stand (since that is what I use it for). It has feet (four I think). I've never seen a silicone mat, placemats double as worktop protectors here. Looking on ebay I see someone is selling "silicone round trivet hot pot stand mats" !!

[Don Petter]

I have what I call a cast-iron trivet but what anyone else might call a teapot stand (since that is what I use it for). It has feet (four I think). I've never seen a silicone mat, placemats double as worktop protectors here. Looking on ebay I see someone is selling "silicone round trivet hot pot stand mats" !!

Perhaps they are mats on which to stand your hot trivet?

[french frank]

Perhaps they are mats on which to stand your hot trivet?

So, first find your trivet.

Actually, I have a brass trivet (or teapot stand) which has four legs. I took that to be a sign that the maker had no Latin.

[mercia]

I wonder if foreigners find it confusing that a ship can list and a building be listed

[Pabmusic]

I wonder if foreigners find it confusing that a ship can list and a building be listed

Or indeed that a list can be shipped. (Although 'couriered' has maybe replaced it.)

[french frank]

I wonder if foreigners find it confusing that a ship can list and a building be listed

And a building can also list, apparently:

1793 J. Smeaton Narr. Edystone Lighthouse (ed. 2) §85 The whole building had got a considerable List or leaning to the S.W.

Of obscure origin, according to the OED.

[jean]

Cottleston Cottleston Cottleston Pie,
A fly can’t bird, but a bird can fly... (A.A.Milne)

[Don Petter]

Here's a listed building that isn't listed (though perhaps it should be).

http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/01/4f/31/0b/edge-of-himley-estate.jpg

[french frank]

Or is it a listing building?

[Don Petter]

Or is it a listing building?

Interesting point. Though wiki says it was stabilised by the brewery, using buttresses, and is no longer moving, so perhaps 'listed' is more appropriate than 'listing'.

Apparently the glasses do still move, along the bar, if you let go.