Pedants' Paradise

[kea]

Not a gripe about current usage but a straight question: Does anyone here pronounce forte (as in "His forte is public speaking") as a monosyllable?

In the sentence you've given (& similar constructions) I pronounce it as a monosyllable. When I use it as a musical term, two syllables.

I don't really know where I picked up the idea that that was correct.

[jean]

It is, though, as the musical term is Italian, while the other is French - see my previous post:

The OED says:

Pronunciation: ( /ˈfɔːti/ , /ˈfɔːteɪ/ , formerly /fɔːt/ )

Etymology: < French fort, absolute use of fort strong

[Pabmusic]

Not a gripe about current usage but a straight question: Does anyone here pronounce forte (as in "His forte is public speaking") as a monosyllable?

I'll explain later if anyone's interested...

Yes, I have done since I was in my teens.

[kea]

It is, though, as the musical term is Italian, while the other is French - see my previous post:

Ah, I missed that the first time around, somehow. Makes sense.

What about the different pronunciations of motif and motive? That's always confused me >.>

[Bryn]

As it's French rather than Italian in origin, I can't see why anyone would not pronounce it as a monosyllable!

The OED says:

Pronunciation: ( /ˈfɔːti/ , /ˈfɔːteɪ/ , formerly /fɔːt/ )

Etymology: < French fort, absolute use of fort strong

I take it you do not pronounce the "t" then.

[jean]

What about the different pronunciations of motif and motive?

I think the simplest answer is that they're both from the French, the latter more anglicised than the former - and as so often when two different spellings and/or pronunciations become established, the words begin to think of themselves as independent entities and go their separate ways - cf. discrete/discreet.

(Which reminds me- I was quite surprised to find, at the recent Richard Hamilton exhibition, that the insufficiently-anglicised hommage was is use as early as the 1960s to refer to Hamilton's relationship with Duchamp.)

[jean]

I take it you do not pronounce the "t" then.

It's not necessary to go so far. What we're after is a naturalised English pronunciation of a French word, without Italian accretions.

(Actually, I don't say it much at all, because I know people will think my etymologically-evidenced pronunciation is wrong. I will know this by the expressions on their faces, and I won't really have the chance to explain.)

[Pabmusic]

I...the insufficiently-anglicised [I]hommage[/I...

Whatever happened to 'homidge" - gone the way of garidge and baridge?

[kea]

I think the simplest answer is that they're both from the French, the latter more anglicised than the former - and as so often when two different spellings and/or pronunciations become established, the words begin to think of themselves as independent entities and go their separate ways - cf. discrete/discreet.

Interesting. I always pronounced discrete and discreet the same, but now I'm not going to anymore.

Whatever happened to 'homidge" - gone the way of garidge and baridge?

All three of those are still things around here, but in America everyone says garaaazh and homaaazh for whatever reason. I blame the Marquis de Lafayette.

[jean]

Whatever happened to 'homidge" - gone the way of garidge and baridge?

I don't think so - it has an independent existence with a somewhat different meaning.

[Bryn]

Whatever happened to 'homidge" - gone the way of garidge and baridge?

And as for Faridge ...

[Pabmusic]

Interesting. I always pronounced discrete and discreet the same, but now I'm not going to anymore.



All three of those are still things around here, but in America everyone says garaaazh and homaaazh for whatever reason. I blame the Marquis de Lafayette.

[jean]

Interesting. I always pronounced discrete and discreet the same, but now I'm not going to anymore.

I wouldn't do that - it was or rather than and in that case!

[Pabmusic]

I don't think so - it has an independent existence with a somewhat different meaning.

Different from 'hommidge'?

[Pabmusic]

And as for Faridge ...

Keep an eye (ear?) open for the first time he accepts 'Faraaage'.