Pedants' Paradise

[mercia]

can "whereabouts" be singular or plural?

the whereabouts of X is a mystery / the whereabouts of X are a mystery

[Serial_Apologist]

"And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil", from The Lord's Prayer:

I've wondered about this since I can remember. The request to the almighty to delivere us from evil is not counterposed to not being led into temptation, surely; so why the "but"?

[Don Petter]

"And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil"

I've wondered about this since I can remember. The request to the almighty to delivere us from evil is not counterposed to not being led into temptation, surely; so why the "but"?

It seems all right to me. 'Don't do that - but - Do this'?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

"And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil"

I've wondered about this since I can remember. The request to the almighty to delivere us from evil is not counterposed to not being led into temptation, surely; so why the "but"?

God has a choice to make: He can "deliver us from evil", or "lead us into temptation" (which seems a bit mean-spirited: perhaps "allow us to let t'other chap lead us into said temptation". In the prayer, the supplicant is insuring him/herself against either/both possibilities.

[Serial_Apologist]

can "whereabouts" be singular or plural?

the whereabouts of X is a mystery / the whereabouts of X are a mystery

One of my dictionaries gives "whereabouts" as an adverb, "near what place" - the other one needs further dictionarial explanation! Neither gives the word as a noun. I would think the latter usage to be colloquial, either in the singular or plural, in which case "is" or "are" would be OK I suppose.

[jean]

The OED has it as a noun as early as 1795, but none of the examples it gives has it as subject so there's no clue as to whether it was regarded as singular or plural:

1795 T. Twining Let. 15 Feb. in S. Parr Wks. (1828) VIII. 273 By way of giving you the whereabouts of my present political opinions.

1853 C. C. Leitch in Mem. (1856) 125 The..questions of the whereabouts and the what-like of a new bungalow.

1878 P. Bayne Puritan Revol. i. 12 Bunyan wrote the Pilgrim's Progress..without giving a hint of his ecclesiastical where~abouts.

1903 Times 3 May 3/6 The prisoner..succeeded in concealing his whereabouts.

[Serial_Apologist]

It seems all right to me. 'Don't do that - but - Do this'?

Yes I suppose that makes for sequential logic, thanks. Somehow the "but" seems to countermand the initial "and", without which, "lead us not into temptation and deliver us from evil" would seems to offer God a positive rather than the merely negative option implied by the "but".

[Serial_Apologist]

God has a choice to make: He can "deliver us from evil", or "lead us into temptation" (which seems a bit mean-spirited: perhaps "allow us to let t'other chap lead us into said temptation". In the prayer, the supplicant is insuring him/herself against either/both possibilities.

Yes that figures too, ferney. My fundamentalist cousins are always asking me why I'm not a Christian!

[french frank]

The OED has it as a noun as early as 1795, but none of the examples it gives has it as subject so there's no clue as to whether it was regarded as singular or plural:

1795 T. Twining Let. 15 Feb. in S. Parr Wks. (1828) VIII. 273 By way of giving you the whereabouts of my present political opinions.

1853 C. C. Leitch in Mem. (1856) 125 The..questions of the whereabouts and the what-like of a new bungalow.

1878 P. Bayne Puritan Revol. i. 12 Bunyan wrote the Pilgrim's Progress..without giving a hint of his ecclesiastical where~abouts.

1903 Times 3 May 3/6 The prisoner..succeeded in concealing his whereabouts.

English linguistics not my thing, but I'd suggest that the 's' isn't a plural marker but an adverbial marker: as in to go forward(s)/backward(s)/sideways/hereabouts. 'Where' and 'abouts' have been fused to form a noun.

[gurnemanz]

English linguistics not my thing, but I'd suggest that the 's' isn't a plural marker but an adverbial marker: as in to go forward(s)/backward(s)/sideways/hereabouts. 'Where' and 'abouts' have been fused to form a noun.

... others like that where the "s" suffix is not plural are indoors, amidships, unawares, besides

Another slightly weird variant is:
Where exactly abouts does he live? (or indeed: Where the ---- abouts does he live?)

or:
Wheres about do you come from? (American?)

My suggestion: Hows about a drink?

[jean]

English linguistics not my thing, but I'd suggest that the 's' isn't a plural marker but an adverbial marker...

Certainly is was when the verb was solely an adverb - but now that it has the option of being a noun as well, who knows how the s will be interpreted?

(I did carefully say of the examples the OED gives there's no clue as to whether it was regarded as singular or plural:)

[Flosshilde]

God has a choice to make: He can "deliver us from evil", or "lead us into temptation" (which seems a bit mean-spirited: perhaps "allow us to let t'other chap lead us into said temptation". In the prayer, the supplicant is insuring him/herself against either/both possibilities.

I thought it was Satan who did the leading (Adam & Eve in the Garden of Eden, & Christ in the desert), & is the evil that God is supposed to deliver us from?

[french frank]

but now that it has the option of being a noun as well, who knows how the s will be interpreted?[/I])

Indeed, and that's how language evolves, isn't it. People will associate a final s with a plural, hence: His whereabouts are unknown.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I thought it was Satan who did the leading (Adam & Eve in the Garden of Eden, & Christ in the desert), & is the evil that God is supposed to deliver us from?

I'd've thought so, too, Flossie - but this is junior's own prayer, so He should know ...

[Serial_Apologist]

I'd've thought so, too, Flossie - but this is junior's own prayer, so He should know ...