Pedants' Paradise

[french frank]

Similarly, they would probably think that the expression "getting off scot free" was racist.

And isn't that why they have a tendency to avoid the word 'welsh' in some contexts in Wales - because it has negative connotations? Not the BBC National Orchestra of Scotland (because Scottish is acceptable), but it is the BBC National Orchestra of Wales. The Wales Millennium Centre seems stranger grammatically than the Welsh Millennium Centre. Scottish, English, French, German okay ...

[mangerton]

And isn't that why they have a tendency to avoid the word 'welsh' in some contexts in Wales - because it has negative connotations? Not the BBC National Orchestra of Scotland (because Scottish is acceptable), but it is the BBC National Orchestra of Wales. The Wales Millennium Centre seems stranger grammatically than the Welsh Millennium Centre. Scottish, English, French, German okay ...

Yes, I'm sure that's right, even although my Chambers says "welsh" is "of uncertain origin".

[gurnemanz]

Yes, I'm sure that's right, even although my Chambers says "welsh" is "of uncertain origin".

The German equivalent for double Dutch is Kauderwelsch. I found a link which seems to suggest that "Welsh" implies strange, foreign and incomprehensible. No comment.

[Pabmusic]

The German equivalent for double Dutch is Kauderwelsch. I found a link which seems to suggest that "Welsh" implies strange, foreign and incomprehensible. No comment.

To which one can add Cornwall, Wallace and Walton, all of which contain the Germanic root walh - 'not like us' (literally 'Slav'!). The Anglo-Saxon word for the people we have (since the 18th Century) called Celts was waelisc (foreigners, outsiders). The central European names Wallachia and Wallonia contain it, as does walnut (because it was southern European rather than nearer home).

Avoidance of Welsh more likely stems from its later use in expressions such as 'to welsh on a deal'. Until their amalgamation into the Royal Regiment of Wales (there it is again) the Welch Regiment and the Royal Welch Fusiliers relied on an old spelling.

[ahinton]

He/she probably also says 'rising to a crescendo'.

Aaargh! That's a real bête schwarz for me, is that - and you never hear anyone referring to "falling to a diminuendo", do you?...

[ahinton]

To which one can add Cornwall, Wallace and Walton, all of which contain the Germanic root walh - 'not like us' (literally 'Slav'!). The Anglo-Saxon word for the people we have (since the 18th Century) called Celts was waelisc (foreigners, outsiders). The central European names Wallachia and Wallonia contain it, as does walnut (because it was southern European rather than nearer home).

Avoidance of Welsh more likely stems from its later use in expressions such as 'to welsh on a deal'. Until their amalgamation into the Royal Regiment of Wales (there it is again) the Welch Regiment and the Royal Welch Fusiliers relied on an old spelling.

Where's Anna when - er - um - she doesn't need us? Welshurely she doesn't after all this, does she?...

[Pabmusic]

...Avoidance of Welsh more likely stems from its later use in expressions such as 'to welsh on a deal'. Until their amalgamation into the Royal Regiment of Wales (there it is again) the Welch Regiment and the Royal Welch Fusiliers relied on an old spelling.

And of course there's 'welsh rabbit' (not rarebit - that's a later rationalisation) - the implication being that medieval Welsh were too poor, basic or inept to catch even a rabbit and relied on toasted cheese instead. Somewhere I have a volume of 16th-Century jokes. It's the most unfunny thing I have, but it's full of anti-Welsh jibes. I recall there's one that asks how you can encourage a Welsh woman to give birth. You hold some toasted cheese at the 'door of life' (I remember that) and the baby comes out, sniffing. Hilarious. You can understand why Shakespeare's jokes are so poor (usually).

[Sir Velo]

It may be more elegant, but it's no more justified.

Burgle is a backformation from burglar (note the spelling; it's not burgler.)

No, that's wrong. Burgled = burgl(ar) + ed. "ed" is always the past participle in English; i.e. definitely not "ad"!

[Roehre]

The German equivalent for double Dutch is Kauderwelsch. I found a link which seems to suggest that "Welsh" implies strange, foreign and incomprehensible. No comment.

The Dutch word for double Dutch / Kauderwelsch is Koeterwaals. In dutch --waals has the same connotations as the German --welsch. It is not a surprise therefore that the Dutch and Flemish call the inhabitants of the French speaking part of Belgium (la Wallonie !) Walen (Welsh), as do the German speaking Swiss their French speaking conpatriots: Welsch

[jean]

Burgle is a backformation from burglar (note the spelling; it's not burgler.)

No, that's wrong. Burgled = burgl(ar) + ed. "ed" is always the past participle in English; i.e. definitely not "ad"!

Exactly - that's what I said..

There was no pre-existing verb to burgle from which burglar was formed - the clue is in the spelling burglar.

The verb to burgle is a backformation from the existing noun burglar.

[Pabmusic]

Exactly - that's what I said..

There was no pre-existing verb to burgle from which burglar was formed - the clue is in the spelling burglar.

The verb to burgle is a backformation from the existing noun burglar.

Yes, absolutely. So many English verbs are back-formations from nouns. A modern one is to emote. Older ones are to beg (from beggar), to diagnose (from diagnosis), to enthuse (from enthusiasm), to injure (from injury), to peddle (from peddlar), to secrete (from secretion), to sulk (from sulky), and to vaccinate (from vaccination).

It's not restricted to verb-formation. One of the best known back-formations is pea (from pease - 'pease paroge hot, pease porage cold' etc.).

[vinteuil]

It's not restricted to verb-formation. One of the best known back-formations is pea (from pease - 'pease paroge hot, pease porage cold' etc.).

... and cherry, from cherries = cerise

[Pabmusic]

... and cherry, from cherries = cerise

[vinteuil]

... and indeed sherry from sherries = Jerez

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

From an early age, I've wondered why the plural of "foot" is always "feet" when referring to the things upon which we walk, but can be either "feet" or "foot" when referring to the 12 inch measure, even though the latter is derived from the former. The OED confirms this.