Pedants' Paradise

[Pabmusic]

Ships dock, so why shouldn't trains platform (although perhaps it should be 'station')?

You have a point. I used to travel to London a lot (West Coast line) and was always slightly disconcerted as we approached Euston to be told that "the train terminates here". It sounded so very final.

[amateur51]

Ships dock, so why shouldn't trains platform (although perhaps it should be 'station')?

Makes the parking of cars sound very odd

[kernelbogey]

You have a point. I used to travel to London a lot (West Coast line) and was always slightly disconcerted as we approached Euston to be told that "the train terminates here". It sounded so very final.

The railways have a strange style of English (sic) all of their own. E.g. 'we shall soon be arriving into Waterloo'. I assume this has arisen as a usage since it is possible to arrive at Waterloo without being in Waterloo, for example when the train is not platformed. In this case it would not be a station stop and we would not be able to terminate quite yet.

[Pabmusic]

Now here's an unusual one that I've seen three times in six weeks, including in a Gramophone review. It seems that the word 'turgid' is being used to mean dull, opaque, difficult to get through. That's wrong; it means pompous and overblown. The poetry of William McGonagall is turgid:

Beautiful Railway Bridge of the Silvery Tay!
With your numerous arches and pillars in so grand array
And your central girders, which seem to the eye
To be almost towering to the sky.
The greatest wonder of the day,
And a great beautification to the River Tay,
Most beautiful to be seen,
Near by Dundee and the Magdalen Green [etc. ad somnum]

The word should have been 'turbid', which means opaque, as in a muddy river. So I asked a few friends (I found three, at least) what they thought 'turgid' meant. They all said dull, opaque, or something similar. That's now six people (three writers and three friends) who are mistaken about the meaning. Dictionaries back me up, but how many more mistakes in print will it take before the meaning of turgid has changed and it becomes a synonym for turbid?

The real lesson is: avoid both turgid and turbid.

[Lateralthinking1]

Now here's an unusual one that I've seen three times in six weeks, including in a Gramophone review. It seems that the word 'turgid' is being used to mean dull, opaque, difficult to get through. That's wrong; it means pompous and overblown. The poetry of William McGonagall is turgid:

Beautiful Railway Bridge of the Silvery Tay!
With your numerous arches and pillars in so grand array
And your central girders, which seem to the eye
To be almost towering to the sky.
The greatest wonder of the day,
And a great beautification to the River Tay,
Most beautiful to be seen,
Near by Dundee and the Magdalen Green [etc. ad somnum]

The word should have been 'turbid', which means opaque, as in a muddy river. So I asked a few friends (I found three, at least) what they thought 'turgid' meant. They all said dull, opaque, or something similar. That's now six people (three writers and three friends) who are mistaken about the meaning. Dictionaries back me up, but how many more mistakes in print will it take before the meaning of turgid has changed and it becomes a synonym for turbid?

The real lesson is: avoid both turgid and turbid.

I didn't realise this difference so I am learning something. Nevertheless, turgid can also mean swollen, not merely in the sense of pomposity, and congested. Those things are not entirely removed from very lengthy, dense, dull prose and that in turn is often difficult to get through.

I see that torpid while often meaning inactive has a similar derivation to torpedo. That word often implies movement and speed. The connection between the two, derivation wise, is stiffness or numbness. Would you agree that these things can work on a number of contradictory levels?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I just love this thread.

[Flosshilde]

turgid can also mean swollen, not merely in the sense of pomposity, and congested.

Aren't we getting dangerously close to flagpoling here?

[Lateralthinking1]

Aren't we getting dangerously close to flagpoling here?

I am not sure that I understand what you mean by "we", "flagpoling" and "here". The other five words are not a major problem for me.

[Pabmusic]

...turgid can also mean swollen, not merely in the sense of pomposity, and congested. Those things are not entirely removed from very lengthy, dense, dull prose and that in turn is often difficult to get through.

I'm sure that none of us at R3 Forum can identify either with turbidity or turgidity, however close or separate their meanings. But I have had to read plenty of lengthy, dense, dull prose that's difficult to get through. And the sound of turbid or turgid is not far from a sort of retching noise, so I'd agree they can work on a number of levels.

[jean]

The word should have been 'turbid', which means opaque, as in a muddy river....

The real lesson is: avoid both turgid and turbid.

If that's what you think turbid means, it's just as well you're avoiding it!

It can certainly be applied to muddy rivers, but it's the reason for their muddiness, rather than the effects of it, that's being characterised.

Latin turbidus means full of confusion and disorder, wild, confused; (trop.) troubled, disordered, perplexed, violent, boisterous, turbulent, vehement.

I don't think it's lost that essential meaning in English.

And a swollen, inflated style often is difficult to get through.

.

[Lateralthinking1]

I'm sure that none of us at R3 Forum can identify either with turbidity or turgidity, however close or separate their meanings. But I have had to read plenty of lengthy, dense, dull prose that's difficult to get through. And the sound of turbid or turgid is not far from a sort of retching noise, so I'd agree they can work on a number of levels.

Excellent. 'We' are moving through the confusion 'here' with the efficiency of a turbine.

[Nick Armstrong]

Aren't we getting dangerously close to flagpoling here?

The excitement is in tents...

[Pabmusic]

If that's what you think turbid means, it's just as well you're avoiding it!

It can certainly be applied to muddy rivers, but it's the reason for their muddiness, rather than the effects of it, that's being characterised.

Latin turbidus means full of confusion and disorder, wild, confused; (trop.) troubled, disordered, perplexed, violent, boisterous, turbulent, vehement.

I don't think it's lost that essential meaning in English.

And turgidus is used even in classical Latin to mean a swollen, inflated style.

Well, this is Pedant's Corner. I wasn't trying to give a comprehensive dictionary definition, but here's one (I'm not at home at present, so I've had to google this):

tur·bid

adjective

1. Not clear or transparent because of stirred-up sediment or the like; clouded; opaque; obscured: the turbid waters near the waterfall.

2. Thick or dense, as smoke or clouds.

3. Confused; muddled; disturbed.

Origin: 1620–30; < Latin turbidus disturbed, equivalent to turb ( āre ) to disturb (derivative of turba turmoil) + -idus

Which seems to cover (3) what you said, and (1 & 2) what I said.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Well, this is Pedant's Corner. I wasn't trying to give a comprehensive dictionary definition, but here's one (I'm not at home at present, so I've had to google this):

That brings us on to another question: the verb "to google". It's a bit like tannoy, hoover and biro - the user of the word accidentally advertises a product.
Personally, I use Yahoo, so I'm just off to yahoo "Fuji xPro 1 camera".

[amateur51]

The railways have a strange style of English (sic) all of their own. E.g. 'we shall soon be arriving into Waterloo'. I assume this has arisen as a usage since it is possible to arrive at Waterloo without being in Waterloo, for example when the train is not platformed. In this case it would not be a station stop and we would not be able to terminate quite yet.